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Warren says he wasn’t Prop. 8 leader
November 29th, 2009, 10:24 am · 96 Comments · posted by Dena Bunis, Washington Bureau Chief
President Barack Obama and Pastor Rick Warren of Saddleback Church during the 2008 presidential campaign.
In a wide-ranging interview on TV’s “Meet the Press” this morning, Saddleback Church Pastor Rick Warren said people mischaracterized his role in last year’s Proposition 8, which defined marriage as between a man and a woman in California.
“People on both sides tried to make me the campaign leader,’’ Warren told David Gregory. “I only mentioned it one time. I mentioned it to my own congregation. Well, that was dumb because it immediatelywent everywhere and then all of a sudden it looked like I was the big campaigner.’’
Having said that, Warren said as a pastor he believes what the Bible says on homosexuality. “My position on gay marriage is very clear. It hasn’t changed.’’
But he also said he understands “the pain people feel from rejection.’’
Here’s what Warren said on a variety of other topics.
Politics in Washington:
We need to deal, he said, with the “coarsing of our society” and the fact that we “demonize our differences.’’
On President Barack Obama:
“I think this president came with a number of cards stacked against him,’’ said Warren, who you’ll remember gave the invocation at Obama’s inauguration. “I personally believe that the number one thing we need to do is get people back to work – before health care or anything else.”
Warren said he’s praying for Obama and didn’t want to grade him on his presidency thus far.
On religion and politics:
“My fear is America will go to one of the two extremes – fearing anyone who is a Muslim … a political correctness that won’t admit there are some religious motivated killings.
“Al Qaeda no more represents Islam than the Ku Klux Klan represented Christianity.”
On giving:
“We’re most like God when we’re giving.’’ Warren said that after he made millions on his first book, “A Purpose Driven Life,” he stopped taking a salary from O.C.’s Saddleback Church and returned the 25 years worth of pay he’d gotten from the church.
Greatest need in the world?
“The 146 million orphans in the world. That is anarchy waiting to happen. Whoever gets there first and loves them first will have their heart and devotion.’’
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DENA BUNIS, Washington bureau chief, 202-628-6381 or dbunis@ocregister.com
BRIAN JOSEPH, Sacramento correspondent, 916-449-6046 or bjoseph@ocregister.com
JENNIFER MUIR, County government reporter, 714-796-7813 or jmuir@ocregister.com
JOEL WALSH, Washington bureau intern, 202-628-6381 or jwalsh@ocregister.com
MARTIN WISCKOL, Politics reporter, 714-285-2867 or mwisckol@ocregister.com twitter.com/MartinWisckol
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Warren is a politician in sheeps clothing.
Have you known him personally Debbie to make such a claim? Or is it because you have opposing views to Pastor Warren’s?
Debbie, I’m guessing you’ve never sat in one single sermon at Saddleback Church.
He seems like a genuine, honest and caring person-and I respect him 100% for that.
He has his positions, and he makes no bones about what side of the fence he is sitting on-but he also respects the other sides views.
We need more leaders like hom.
Debbie, the book of Mark has my reply, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own country, among his own relatives, and in his own house”. Warren is an honorable man, and no I don’t attend Saddleback.
All popular evangelists are political - every one of them. Pat Robertson has Regeant University, Jerry Falwell has Liberty University. The sole objective of these institutions of hyper education is to groom generations of Christian-active attorneys and politicians.
Warren has his Saddleback Church and his Purpose Driven Debate between Obama and McCain.
Political power has been the mainstay of Christianity since Constantinople gave it credibility.
WELL ENOUGH IS ANOUGH, LIE LIE LIE, MAKE A LAW TO INVALIDATE HIS MARRIAGE AND SEE HOW HE SCREAMS AND WAILS LIKE A THREE YEAR OLD GIRL.
Looks like it’s getting a little too hot in the kitchen for Rick. The pro Prop 8 stance must be hitting him in the pocketbook. Otherwise he wouldn’t be making these concessions and ‘crying uncle’. Sure he was a leader in the effort to pass Prop 8. He’s a leader in the community and spoke out in favor of it. Make no mistake about it. When you’re a leader and you voice an opinion your opinion goes mainstream, whether you like it or not. Better next time just to keep your lips zipped. But no doubt your membership demanded that you make a statement. So you did. When you’re making big bucks you have to make big decisions, Rick. You have to live with your statements, like it or not. And cowering after those decisions are made does not suit you well. Be a man. Stand up for what you believe in. Don’t waver. There’s nothing worse than a cowardly leader.
Where did he cower? He admitted what he said and what he believes in. I see no cowering.
Rick knows the clout that he holds with the general public. You think we’re stupid out here?? Rick also knows when he talk about a controversial subject, especially when it comes to the moral majority, that it gets broadcasted everywhere. Now he’s trying to cover his tracks by saying he wasn’t a pumper for Prop 8. Hogwash. I think it probably hit him square in the pocketbook since gays have so much economic clout in the nation. So now he regrets it. hah. It’s all about the money, ain’t it, Rick.
Why doesn’t he keep his big nose out of politics and go save some souls. Isn’t that his primary function??? Not hosting presidential forums and appearing on Meet the Press. hah. What a joke!
Theory: Warren’s statement on marriage “probably hit him square in the pocketbook”??
You’re not making sense.
You think that gays suddenly stopped buying his books and contributing to his church? Are you suggesting they were supporting him before Prop 8? I’m guessing, not so much.
DPreacher,
There are alot of gays in very influential, powerful positions who pull economic strings that could affect book sales.
My guess is that Rick created a war with lots of collateral damage.
And that could very well be a reason for him trying to tone down his rhetoric after the fact.
Like trying to make peace with the enemy. hah.
Your comment couldn’t be farther off the mark - If you want to know what makes Rick Warren tick, read his books. The basis of a marriage is in the bible and as a man of God, he cannot take another position. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t love those he thinks are on the wrong side of the position.
With regard to President Obama, God annoints leaders. For the time being, President Obama is our leader and we must pray for him, his leadership and rely that God’s hand is in everything he does.
If you’re looking for a fight, you won’t get it from Warren. Unconditional love, like the love of Jesus, doesn’t respond to inflammatory words from men.
Horsepuckey.
Rick has no place in national politics. His job is to be a spiritual guide and to save souls…..PERIOD. He dabbles in politics because that’s where the power lies. And he wants to be part of it. For him being a spirtual advisor is not enough. Rick wants more, more, more….
If Rick loves mankind then why doesn’t he speak out against Obama who is about ready to send 40000 more troops into Afghanistan and escalate the war??? hmmm??? This will mean that MORE HUMANS WILL DIE! Maybe you should acquaint Rick with one of the ten commandments: Thou shalt not kill. Of, but of course Rick would probably justify killing those in Afghanistan (even tho he loves them! hah!). I have NEVER heard Rick Warren decry war!!! Hundreds of thousands of innocent iraqi citizens have been killed. Where is Rick??? Why doesn’t he try and stop that madness??? hah.
Horsepuckey!
You won’t bait me into a fight either.
Rick Warren supported Prop 8? So what? This is a good thing.
Marriage is between a man and a women!
Period!
Actually, if you want to support the Biblical version of marriage, it is between a man and his wive(s).
Just because he didn’t hold the title of “Prop 8 Leader” doesn’t mean he didn’t influence very many people to vote the way he voted. BS.
And your point is?
That is their point…
How can one believe everything in the King James version of the Bible. Mistranslations and agendas caused numerous issues from trying to unify a book translated (and mistranslated) from Hebrew, Latin, Greek, and Aramaic. Not to mention quite a few contemporary bibles already translated into other vernaculars at the time of the King James translation in the early 1600s. I remember my religion teacher in high school telling me that we have to assume that the Holy Ghost was guiding these translators in making their new version. Religion truly has the propensity of taking facts and explaining them away when they don’t match their beloved paradigm.
I’m truly saddened by the ‘tone’ and ignorance of the posters here, that obviously make assumptions about an individuals’ motives, based only on their own political ’stance’.
True idiocy in action!
Religion is political. Only the religious would want to convince one otherwise.
Do people not understand that when you are in the public eye, and make a statement, it is now written and no longer just a ‘verbal communication’. If you don’t want it remembered - then don’t say it! Those who supported Porp 8 are unrealistic people who can not handle the truth!
Rick Warren is a monster and is only significant to the hate mongers that follow him.
Rick Warren is not a monster and doesn’t hate anyone. Tone it down sir.
Except for gays, oh wait, they’re not people anyway, you and Warren are right.
Oh Cole, you must remember, he doesn’t HATE gays, he just thinks they’re not as GOOD as he is, nor worth having the same rights as he enjoys.
Rick Warren is a monster and is only significant to the hate mongers that follow him.
==============================
You don’t have the same views he has-and to be honest I disagree with some of his views also-that doesn’t make anyone a “hate monger”.
I agree that you need to tone it down and show some tolerance of your own.
As long as we’re not talking about government workers, right? Then all bets are off and name-calling is OK.
JB fully promoted tolerance, provided the subject is one he can tolerate.
I don’t think Pastor Warren is a monster or a hate monger, I don’t hear him preaching hate. I don’t agree with same sex marriage but I certainly don’t hate gays, if fact I’d love to see them have some kind of a legal ceremony not called marriage but with full benefits of marriage. The problem lies within the word “marriage”. They could choose a word that has a special meaning to them. That would take care of the people who say marriage is between a man and a woman.
We did choose word… marriage. We are talking about a civil marriage recognized by the state. A great many of us could care less about whether the church likes it or not. The plain and simple truth is folks like you see your relationships and yourselves and superior to gay relationships and, by inference, gay people, or you wouldn’t care if we got married. Just admit it to yourself.
JusSayin: I totally agree, but laws are created by intricate articulation. It would be nice to have one law that reads “Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.” Undoable (which BTW is not an English word).
Warren has a flock to flock out of their money, and the word marriage is one way to do it.
He wants the government to focus on jobs before healthcare reform? That is a recipe for never getting healthcare done. Jobs will come back, but it will take several years. People are suffering needlessly right now. We don’t have years to wait for healthcare reform. It’s kind of now or never, or at least 25 years from now.
I guess his churchies must be scared about healthcare reform, so he has to echo that. That doesn’t sound like leadership to me.
typical religious hypocrite, he is.
always the gay bashers who turn out to be gay, hmm?
somewhere else, you should tap your toe, fatso.
trust him, i do not.
It wasn’t ANY ONE person. It’s a total group effort of law abiding, constitution believing, God fearing people who have stood up and supported this law.
Rick Warren’s shining Christianity is only outdone by that of Mrs Betty Bowers: http://www.bettybowers.com/betty4president/?p=151
I am LDS and my church obviously stepped forward (and took the heat) for our grass-roots efforts for Prop 8. But I don’t fault Pastor Warren for setting the record straight about his involvement in the campaign. His focus is — and should be — on being a shepherd for his flock. His comments about Prop 8 were enough to get many of his congregants involved in the Prop 8 campaign activities. The LDS church in OC has great respect for Pastor Warren and the commitment to faith of his congregants.
ed mosche,
but Rick wants to bask in the political limelight. he just saves souls when he has some time left over. but his priority is hosting presidential forums and appearing on Meet the Press or Fox news to give his political opinons to the talking heads!! hah! Another publicity stunt to sell more books. The Prop 8 thing probably backfired on him and hit him in the pocketbook. That’s why he’s trying to squirm out of it now. Gotta protect that book revenue at all costs!! hah!
Why such attacks? Did Pastor Warren do something horrible to you personally? Or is it you merely disagree with him (and the majority of voters) about prop 8? What proof can you provide regarding the church congregation requiring him to speak up about his thoughts? Also, what proof do you have to substantiate him loving money? You seem quite angry about Rick Warren’s actions - why? Is it possible you’ve misinterpreted something?
pastors should not delve into national politics and appear on every pundit show to let us know their political opinions. we don’t care. rather he should tend to his flock and their spiritual needs. Rick has proven himself to be an egomaniac with is presidential forums and such. if the catholics held a gubernatorial forum in their place of worship the christian community would call them ‘blatphemists’. rick moderates a pres forum in his church and sells millions of books as a result. hah. Not angry. Just love to post my opinion on what my observations reveal. just calling a duck a duck. I know many like you find that offensive in today’s mixed up world.
Yes, he did do something to me personally. As an influential leader in California he spoke out on an issue that robbed me of the right to enter into a legal relationship with my spouse to provide me all the benefits of a married couple. That is genuine harm, not theoretical. And everyone who voted for Prop 8 did exactly the same thing. My security has been threatened and my personal life violated. Don’t be clueless about the effects of Prop H8.
Rick spent an inordinate amount of time this morning on “Meet the Press” in letting the world know what a generrous and wonderful man that he is, and described in minute detail how he donates 90% of his income to charity….for some reason, I had some difficulty in dispelling the image of the Pharisee and the Publican at that point. “Thank God I am not likee this Publican”….etc)
When people are starving, homeless and without health care, do think Jesus would rather have had you and the LDS “church” spend the money fighting prop. 8, or using it to help people in serious need?
A lot of Christians don’t believe YOUR religion has any merit, and that it’s evil. How would you feel if we could just simply vote on a proposition to have the gov’t. deny the recognition of your church and your beliefs, strip it of it’s tax exempt status, and prevent certain affiliations as we see fit??
Well Bryan, then you really have no idea why the LDS church ended up in Utah do you?
But as with all groups that use victimization as their calling card you have no idea what you are talking about.
Marriage is between a man and a woman. If your intent is to be married that is how it is done.
If you have some other type of union in mind then come up with a new name that fits your condition. I have given examples over the years to my fellow citzens of the homosexual condition, ferriage, gayknot, gayanchor, ballsandchain, or homoarriage.
Save your hate for your mate buddy, I am agnostic, but detest stupidity.
I know why Mormons ended up in Utah; because “good” Christians hated their guts and chased them out of civilized society. And as a matter of course, they have now found someone they can look down on and feel better about themselves. Way to go, LDS, you’ve joined your persecutors and now you’re just like them.
As for names, we chose one… marriage; civil marriage recognized by the state. Why the church cares is beyond me. No one is requiring them to marry anyone they don’t want. I was a pastor for 15 years and refused to marry a number of couples over the years for reasons I found necessary. No one complained because it was my decision to make. (I did get blasted by some Christian folk for marrying an interracial couple.) We’re not talking sacrament, we’re talking secular relationship with legal rights. Get a clue what you’re talking about.
Yea, Jackass, errrr Donkey, I do know how they ended up in Utah.
Doesn’t address my point that the gov’t. or the “people” can’t persecute them TODAY…how they got to Utah is not the issue.
In fact, it makes their contribution to prop. 8 even more ironic, given their history.
Your tart response did not address my scenario at all. So before you go around calling others stupid, maybe you should look in a mirror. You obviously weren’t intelligent enough to digest my point.
So why don’t you go back to the barnyard, when jackasses, errr Donkeys belong.
What a ridiculous and false argument.
How about rather than mounting campaigns to get validation of same sex marriages, the pro same-sex marriage crowd should have put their money into aiding the poor?
What would Jesus do - give me a break.
Why specifically is this a ridiculous and false argument?
Stating it to be as such does not make it so. State why?
Ed Mosche–how do you feel about the fact that your religion expressly states that black people are descendants of the devil?
Rick Warren is being a bit disingenuous. He was a vigorous and outspoken opponent of gay marriage. His opinions were plastered all over the media at the time. The guy is a prevaricator and a sleazeball.
Why did Dena Bunis make prop 8 the title of this story?
Warren made other revelations.
Marriage is between a man and a woman, so easy to understand.
Common sense has been beat out of so many people of today that overtime stupidity has become common and sense has moved on.
I dont think he is a monster, just a little wishy washy and ignorant on many issues. He should just stand up, be a real man, and say the
truth, that marraige is between 1 man and 1 woman and any other
perveted atempts at variance, i.e. 2 men 1 woman, or 2 women 1 man,
or 1 woman and 1 woman or 1 man and 1 man or other incestial perversions like father and daughter or mother and son are not marraige
and should never be called as such, we are seeing a breaking down of
society because of such weak stances of our “leaders” on these issues
and are paying a big price, LOOK AROUND!!!
He was also wrong when he said during the hosted debate between John Mcain and Barack Hussein Obama, that we could do worse than either of the two leaders, Being that Obama came in with one of the most PRO Abortion records of any politician, I wonder how Rick feels about Abortion, and if he is against it , He should SPEAK UP and not play politics
You’re a racist–why didn’t you use McCain’s middle name?
The video of Rick Warren endorsing Proposition 8 is public record on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o4QqGbQmU0
In addition to the video, Warren sent an e-mail to each and every member of his congregation in support of Prop 8. To say that he played no role in advocating support of Proposition 8 is an overt lie.
Thanks for the youtube proof source, TMS.
On Meet the Press this morning Rick said “I only mentioned it one time. I mentioned it to my own congregation”
He told his congregation to spread the word everywhere, not just to fellow church members, to everyone. So obviously Rick was an activist. A leader activist. Why would he be so disingenuous to say otherwise??
Please, enough already!
What exactly did Rick Warren say that was false? He addressed the Prop 8 issue once in a weekly email to his congregation, a couple of days before the election. He wasn’t involved in fundraising or organizing for Prop 8. He wasn’t a co-sponsor of the initiative. Rick Warren is a spiritual leader who gave his opinion on an issue important to his congregation. He was doing his job. Do you have a job, or do you just complain and fling mud all day?
He instructed his flock to spread the word. He’s the leader of his flock, Rob. Basically, he said ‘take this seed and propogate it’. That made him an instant activist whether you like it or not. I don’t have a problem with the man giving his opinion on this topic. In fact, it happens to agree with my own. I just don’t like him waffling after the fact and wavering on whether he was a leader or not. Of course he was a leader. He knows how much weight his word carries. So he should either keep it zipped or expect fallout later when the money starts to erode. His waffling is what irritates me.
Pastor Warren is is an honorable man. I too believe marriage is between a man and a woman, at the same time I feel the pain of same sex couples who love each other. My solution would be give them a union with all the same perks but use another name than marriage. Problem solved!
JusSayin,
oh, don’t get me wrong. I don’t fault Rick at all for publicly endorsing Prop 8. As a christian southern baptist pastor I don’t see that he has any other choice. In fact, I think it’s his obligation. As a matter of fact, I agree with him. I just don’t like to see him squirm and downplay his opinion after the fact by claiming he wasn’t a leader. SURE RICK IS A LEADER!!! WHEN HE SPEAKS PEOPLE LISTEN!!! STOP IT!!!
All I’m asking is that Rick be a man. Don’t waffle after you make a public statement. Grow a set!!! Don’t let money be your only guide!
Meh, I don’t think pastors should have bearing on elections that take away human rights from other people. Get out of my government, thankyouverymuch.
The only part of the Bible which talks about gays says that they should be put to death. Does Warren believe this? It’s either all true, or none of it is.
Oh, and a few lines away in the same part of the Bible, it says that eating shrimp is an “abomination” (the same word used for homosexual behavior). Does Rick eat shrimp?
You clearly have not read the Bible, so please don’t paraphrase it. What verses are you referring to, and what translation?
Rob, those commandments are in the Bible, if you have to ask what verses and what translation, you clearly have not read it. It’s pretty common knowledge.
It also says children should be put to death for dishonoring their parents.
Start with Levitcus, it’s just a gaggle of goodies in there.
I’m not taking your word for it. I’m demanding proof. If you’re going to take aim at the Bible, you’d better be prepared to name the exact location of the verse you’re taking out of context.
Exactly WHERE does it say children should be put to death for dishonering their parents? Tell us now.
Dear Rob:
Leviticus, Chapter 20, Verse 9:
“For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him. “
it is only the rarest of fanatics (see Westboro Baptist Church) who would take any such verse literally, Bryan. no other religious convocation do I know who would endorse such a thing.
bps….but it is not a rare fanatic to use such verses to be against gays, look at the article we are discussion. Rick Warren uses the bibles statements about gays literally….
And if you don’t take the bible literally, then why should gay marriage even be an issue?
It’s in Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13.
King James version.
So do you believe that gays should be put to death? Remember, the Bible must be all true, because is it the word of God, right? Do you mean to say that parts of the Bible are wrong? How can that be.
I’m eating shrimp for dinner, by the way, despite the fact that the Bible says it is an “abomination”, the same word used for gays.
bpsqwerty says: it is only the rarest of fanatics (see Westboro Baptist Church) who would take any such verse literally, Bryan. no other religious convocation do I know who would endorse such a thing.
Yet those very same religious convocations take the neighboring verse that gays are an ‘abomination’ very seriously. So tell me, why do they get to pick and choose and who decides what’s in and what’s out? I’ll tell you the answer - their own personal preferences and nothing more. They don’t like gay people and feel superior to them so that verse is “in.” They do like shrimp, so that verse is “out.” Give me a break. If you’re going to use the Bible as a rule book to belittle others, you better be consistent or people will call you what you are - a hypocrite.
Rick Warren, has to take a stand and deliver on his positions or else all his followers remain wishy washy. Just look at the Catholic Church and it’s leaders how they denounce and stand by the church’s longstanding moral values. Yes, I know you will say that the catholic church has to clean up its mess. It is trying and an ongoing process. By the way, what about the age old missions, hospitals, orphanages,schools, started and still run by the catholics and their billion in followers. No one is perferct, I would just for once like leaders like Rick warren to stand firm and not waffle, catholic and non- Catholics alike..
Why doesn’t Rick oppose the wars??? Hundreds of thousands of innocent people have died over virtually nothing but greed. It seems to me that a spiritual leader would be outspoken about such madness. Why doesn’t Rick hold anti-war rallies??? How about that pesky old commandment: Thou shalt not kill??? Oh, but killing the innocent iraqis and afghani’s is a necessary evil, right??? Is that how he justifies it??? He speaks out against gay marriage but says nothing about hundreds of thousands of innocents getting blown away??? hah. Don’t make me laugh!
You’re misinformed on the Bible. The original commandment actually translates to “Thou shalt not murder.” Nowhere in the Bible does God tell us we aren’t supposed to defend ourselves, our families or our country. You’re also misinformed on the wars we’re fighting. The war in Iraq has brought freedom to millions of people. The Taliban in Afghanistan would rather kill women than allow them to go to school. We fight to defend freedom around the world, not because of greed.
I knew I would find one of you nuts out there. hey man, dead is dead. when an innocent man, woman or child gets hit by a bomb it really matters not what you claim to call it. The innocent person is DEAD! And if Rick Warren is a lover of mankind he should stand up for those people!!! He protects the AIDS victims in Africa. Why not the hundreds of thousands of innocents killed in OUR wars??? hmmm??? Why doesn’t Rick defend them and call for an end to the madness???
Rob wrote:
“The war in Iraq has brought freedom to millions of people”
That is an example of why I despise you people. Such cowards. You’ve never heard a shot fired in your entire life. And now you try to justify hundreds of thousands of innocents being massacred and literally MILLIONS being displaced or forced to leave their countries after their property was destroyed. You spoiled brat! Shame on you!
Rick Warren is supposed to celebrate human life. Not hide in the corner as it is being destroyed. Hypocrite!
Rob says:
“You’re misinformed on the Bible. The original commandment actually translates to “Thou shalt not murder.” Nowhere in the Bible does God tell us we aren’t supposed to defend ourselves, ”
So defending ourselves by invading Iraq? So exactly what were we defending ourselves from by invading a country that had nothing to do with 9-1-1 and had a secular leader (by Muslim extremest standards), a leader that bin laden himself would have had nothing to do with?
And since you’re so familiar with the bible, how is it that you claimed not to be familiar with Leviticus where it says you can kill your children for cussing his parents and you should put gays to death?
I suppose you have some twisted interpretation to try and squirm out of the parts of the Bible that would never be accepted or carried out by todays standards.
Well, anyone else can go in and do the same to make the passages even worse. Which is why nobody should try to force their version of the bible and their personal beliefs on another…PERIOD!
Wow..it really worked on you.
Warren is positiioning for some type of Obama czar appointment.
BEWARE !!!!!!!!!!!!
Warren is a great business man. Warren is a storyteller who gets people to believe in his dreams and desires based on faith that their is a god. Warren gets those people to donate to him 10% and more of their income so he can travel the world and tell his stories.
Rick Warren is a rock band leader, nothing more. Were he to get rid of his rock music, his church would dissapear in 30 secionds!!!!
does he play drums, do the guitar, or sing? I wonder what his high score is.
It never ceases to amaze me how quick and hard the ANTI-CHRISTian and God haters decend on anything positive about anyone who wants to stand up for God’s Word.
If any of you knew the Christian faith you would know that it teaches we are no longer under the “Law” but under “grace”. We no longer follow the law. Our relationship with God is not through the law but through His son Jesus Christ.
Is Rick Warren a member of the Council on Foreign Relations?
no but Nancy Pelosi is.
by the way, I’m not onewhoknows (that’s somebody else).
Meh, I think it’s because younger people are leaving the churches in droves. Even many who believe in god…the way these ministers get involved in politics is a real turn-off to many, especially when people’s rights get taken away because of it.
I suppose Rick gets many proverbial dividends for rubbing elbows with the big boys in national politics, as long as he toes the line. And long as he doesn’t protest stuff like the killing of hundreds of thousands of innocent people in the middle east wars he will do fine. Rick sticks with the politically correct stuff, like helping AIDS victims in Africa. Bono-style. Obama likes that. But don’t you dare talk about the mass slayings and wholesale destruction in Iraq and Afghanistan, Rick. Who knows??? Don’t even think about doing what Jesus would do. Those proverbial dividends might go bye-bye.
Rick Warren said today that he “mentioned it ONE TIME” and that he was not a leader on the issue, just answering someone’s question.
In October of 2008, Rick Warren stepped forward at least TWICE just as Proposition 8 leaders were seeking more money, and just a week before voters were to go to the polls. What was the “it” that he “mentioned?”
First he sent out a mass e-mail saying, “There is no doubt where WE should stand on this issue… vote yes on Proposition 8 — to preserve the biblical definition of marriage.”
Then he put out a widely distributed video message where he said: “Let me just say this really clearly. We support Proposition 8. And if you believe what the bible says about marriage, you need to support Proposition 8.”
That goes well beyond “just answering a question” — that’s taking a leading role! “WE” is not sharing just his personal point of view. And telling people what “YOU NEED TO” is not being non-political.
RICK WARREN IS A LIAR, PHONY & HYPOCRITE. He rewrites his own history but the true words that came from his mouth and his fingertips belie his fake persona as Mr. I Love Everyone. And this does not even begin to touch on all the numerous anti-gay statements he continued to make AFTER Prop8.
tawn
Well, what do you expect??
If you hang out with GW Bush or Obama it starts to rub off on ya! hah.
Now which commandment says “Thou shalt not lie?” The 6th or 7th? I can’t remember.
Memo to Homosexuals:
You have less economic power than you think. If it were otherwise, you’d have all the movers and shakers lined up on your side. But you don’t…
You clearly live in a bubble where Fox News and bible thumpers rule the world. In reality, homosexuals and liberal supporters pull a lot of swing in our world. There are far more influential people in this world that Rick Warren, and you’re sure to learn that soon. The economic power of homosexuals is less than that of heterosexuals, yes, without a doubt, considering there are less homosexuals than hetero. However, they manage to rake in the support of people with money to burn. In the situation of Prop 8, the opposition was simply outbid by individuals that would rather lose their homes than see 2 men or 2 women get married. It wont happen again, clearly the issue isn’t over we’ll continue to vote until the right decision is made, as with any major political issue.
I think gays even have more clout in some religious circles - like the catholics for instance. But not out in the open. Behind closed doors.
Rick Warren’s administration lied to me through his (surrogate) teeth when it came to getting a “ticket” to the Obama / McCain non-debate.
He is an extreme liar by proxy.
alter,
didn’t you have to be a special ‘club member’ by invitation only to get one of those tickets?
I wonder how many mormons or jewish people were invited?
Yes. You had to be a “club member” to get a ticket. When I enquired via email two weeks before the event, I was told the method of distributing tickets had not been determined and I should keep visiting the website. It was not a form letter, this is the response I received:
———-
Hi Bill,
There has been no decision on ticket price or distribution. When a final decision has been made, it will be posted on http://www.saddlebackcivilforum.com
All God’s Best,
John
John Mogush
Assistant to Pastor Rick
Saddleback Church
———-
Yes, my name is Bill and I signed the letter appropriately with my fist name, last name and correct email and physical address.
He was lying through his teeth and I’m sure told to do so, as the members of the Saddleback club were the only ones admitted to the conference except for about 500 others.
Want to impress me with the word of god?
Make a tax code that makes a church a tax paying part of society the minute they ask for contributions.
I’ve sat in on Ricks Church Sermons and frankly they don’t impress me anymore then something I would hear at a Calvary Church or for that matter Schuller Glass gateway to the heavons.