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Senate votes to start historic health debate
November 21st, 2009, 5:14 pm · 130 Comments · posted by Dena Bunis, Washington Bureau Chief
Majority Leader Harry Reid (R) hugs Sen. Chris Dodd. Sen. Tom Harkin looks on.
With just the 60 votes they needed, the Democrats got the okay today to begin debating an $848 billion health care reform bill that if passed would move Congress one step closer to fulfilling one of President Barack Obama centerpiece campaign promises.
The vote was 60-39.
Just got an email from Sen. Dianne Feinstein. California’s senior senator said tonight’s party-line vote showed the stark differences between the two parties. “This was effectively a filibuster,’’ she said.
“ Now, how do you filibuster and try to prevent debate on what is one of the most important issues to the American family? Families deal with this every day, can’t we deal with it, debate it, have amendments, vote them up or down, and at the end hopefully have a bill that will then go to conference, work out differences, then come back? But to say no, we’re going to turn our backs and we don’t even want to discuss it — that, to me, was very stark up here tonight.”
UPDATES: See statements from Sen. Barbara Boxer and White House below.
“Beyond all the hype, hyperbole and hyperventilation,’’ said Majority Leader Harry Reid just before the vote to allow his bill to come to the floor for debate. “ A yes vote says to America I know this issue is important to America and to your family…There’s nothing to fear in debate my Republican friends. It’s our job and it’s exactly what the legislative process is all about.’’
Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell
Not so, said Minority Leader Mitch McConnell.
“This bill itself is a massive monument to bureaucracy and spending,’’ McConnell said. “A vote in favor of this bill tells every American family sitting in a waiting room tonight wondering when they’ll get to see a doctor or how much it’s going to cost: ‘It’s not our concern.’”
Reid is credited with negotiating with diverging opinions within his own party and getting the votes to move ahead. Had he not been able to get the 60 votes, needed because of Senate rules on how bills can be brought to the floor, this year’s effort at health reform would have ended.
In a procedure reserved for the most important of bills, lawmakers stood at their seats and said their votes out loud. As the roll was called there were ayes on the Democratic sides and nays on the Republican. The Senate’s two Independent senators also voted yes.
This is just the first step in this effort. Democrats are fractured over whether to include a public option in the plan, how the abortion language should be framed and over the levels of cost containment and taxes to pay for the bill.
Republicans voted no as a block. Only Ohio Sen. George Voinovich was absent. The GOP views the bill as too expensive, too much government intrusion and lacking such elements as reforming malpractice insurance awards and allowing people to purchase health insurance across state lines.
GOP lawmakers hope they can derail the bill before it gets to a final vote and keep Democrats leaders from getting to 60 if it does.
The drama over whether the Democrats would have the votes to begin debating and amending Reid’s bill in earnest ended in mid-afternoon in Washington when Arkansas Sen. Blanche Lincoln went to the floor and said she would provide the 60th vote. An hour before Louisiana Sen. Mary Landrieu, the other Democratic holdout did the same.
Lincoln and Landrieu both represent states with constituencies that are against a major government management of health care, especially a public plan. Both senators are up for re-election next year. And both lawmakers made it clear today that just because they voted to begin debate senators shouldn’t assume they will vote to end it and pass the bill.
They aren’t the only senators who voted to go ahead but are by no means easy yes votes going forward. Connecticut Independent Sen. Joe Lieberman, who aligns himself with the Democratic caucus, said he won’t vote for a bill with a public option. Sen. Ben Nelson of Nebraska has also said he has major problems with the bill. So has Sen. Evan Bayh of Indiana.
Work on amending the bill is expected to begin the week after Thanksgiving. Obama has said he wants a bill on his desk by the end of the year. It’s not yet clear whether the Senate will meet that deadline.
Here’s a statement White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs issued after the vote:
“The President is gratified that the Senate has acted to begin consideration of health insurance reform legislation. Tonight’s historic vote brings us one step closer to ending insurance company abuses, reining in spiraling health care costs, providing stability and security to those with health insurance, and extending quality health coverage to those who lack it. The President looks forward to a thorough and productive debate.”
Here’s Boxer’s statement:
“I am pleased that we got the 60 votes needed to move forward and debate this important legislation.
“This is a crucial moment for our country. Providing affordable health care for all of America’s families has been an elusive goal since Teddy Roosevelt first proposed it a century ago, but today we have moved a step closer to fulfilling that promise.
“We know that every day another 14,000 Americans lose their health insurance, and that nearly two-thirds of bankruptcies are the result of a health care crisis. It is time for change.
“We have to come together for our nation. I look forward to this debate and to passing legislation that improves health care for Californians and all Americans.”
Even if the bill emerges from the Senate, that version would have to be reconciled with the House-passed bill. As they stand now, the House and Senate bill have different ways of paying for health reform. They have slightly different approaches to handling the question of federal funding for abortion. And the Senate bill goes further in restricting the ability of illegal immigrants to access health coverage.
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DENA BUNIS, Washington bureau chief, 202-628-6381 or dbunis@ocregister.com
BRIAN JOSEPH, Sacramento correspondent, 916-449-6046 or bjoseph@ocregister.com
JENNIFER MUIR, County government reporter, 714-796-7813 or jmuir@ocregister.com
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Democrats voted to end cloture. The only thing historic about “Historic” is it’s a left wing talking point.
I’m curious if the Democrats will survive the next two elections. The AP will expend their last vestiges of credibility in the gambit.
Bet a lot of them will be in the unemployment line with the rest of us, at least lets hope so. I cannot believe how self serving these people are. Even after they had the town halls they voted for something the people do not want. Their party will not be able to save them no matter what happens now come 2010 when they are up for re-election, they did not listen to the people that voted them in so they will be voted out. Look at New Jersery… guess they just don’t believe it will happen to them.
Maybe the GOP should look at what happened in Upstate New York too!
My dear, the town halls were not the majority! They were the losers who refused to accept their situation.
Keep thinking that Woodsie…and tell your liberal friends. You are history in the upcoming election.
sounds like something Glenn Back said.
This has nothing to do with healthcare. It is about expanding the US government to enable a segment of the population that Obama has an affinity for to be coupled to the more productive population that he does not.
Think about it. If you represent a population that cannot compete intellectually or economically with the majority population how do you ensure that population’s survival? If a rigorously enforced equality before the law does not allow that population to compete successfully and if, in a declining economic situation, the stragglers are likely to be cut loose and left to their own devices what does one do. You strap them to the backs of those who can still survive and make one and all subject to the same level ( poor) of medical care.
Here are some more generalizations since you seem to favor them over specifics.
You’re going to pay for the “poor” one way or another. You seem to overlook the fact that your money is being wasted — right now — on poor quality health care for people who aren’t covered by a plan. It’s poor quality because it is always emergent. How? Every person who can’t pay is written off on taxes by the hospital. Every item on the bill is inflated to maximize the write-off. It’s money that the government never collects but is tantamount to a government expenditure.
And you are right, it has nothing to do with healthcare. It’s a power struggle.
And, we aren’t just paying for the poor or intellectually inferior. We are paying for the victims of economic warfare on the working and middle class. And the poor. It’s the rich getting over on the others. Do you really believe that all those who aren’t covered are just inferior beings that you have to carry? I know you don’t no one in their right mind would.
Anyway, it’s not the poor that you have strapped to your back. It’s the rich. They are the ones who have thrived during the last thirty years while we have seen little growth in our wages and benefits. (I’m assuming that you aren’t rich.)
You do a good job of lumping everyone into a have or have-not generalization. Maybe you ought to get out more. The world is much more complex.
No Mike it was Wilson, FDR and John Maynard Keynes (all good progressives) who helped make the Rich (ie Globalist Bankers) our masters and strapped the Poor to our backs.
are these senators traitors, they hurt america with every plan they invent. They should be shown the door yesterday
so Luke, anyone that you disagree with is a traitor? You’d better stay under your bed and not venture outside any more because, udner your definition, America is full of millions of traitors.
Wrong Eric. Luke said both Houses of Congress is full of traitors. He is correct. Their job is to represent the will of the people and they are not doing that. They are being subverted by a liberal Marxist agenda…(Oh no…did he say that!?) As soon as the empty-suit-in-chief and the liberals are voted out, most of the sedition will cease.
What health care debate? A debate implies two-way communication. The Obama administration’s mind is made up, as are those of the sycophants, second-handers, and hangers-on who want to capitalize on this “historic” health care bill and have their fifteen minutes of fame.
Sometimes it is better to do nothing than rush headlong to address problems that are both real and imagined. Problems have a way of solving themselves over time. Throwing money at a problem, or throwing out the baby with the bathwater, rarely solves the problem.
Every one of these traitors, including the president, should be turned out of office and imprisoned for violating the precepts of the U.S. Constitution and embracing, with open arms, the Communist Manifesto.
“What health care debate? A debate implies two-way communication.”
Let’s see if the Republicans agree.Or, if they will sit on their hands and make no attempt to improve this legislation. I think all we will see is finger pointing and blame, rather than constructive input.
Do you know who has legally made it impossible for the Insurance companies to compete nationally? The congress. Yes our congress who now wants to have a “single payer” system and compete against the insurance company.
Level playing fleld, BS. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid should be recalled. Let’s add Barbara Boxer to the list too. She has sold the country to the lowest bidder.
Richard - I’m with you, my friend. I’ll join you in the trenches.
Spot on Richard….however, logic will confuse the liberals and make their brain hurt.
Bring back the Town Hall meetings! I miss the coverage on the nightly news.
Bring back the Town Hall meetings! I miss the coverage on the nightly news.
Folks, we have just spent 1.6 Trillion dollars on Wall Street Bailout and Stimulus. By the time our children pay that amount it will be close to 3 Trillion dollars. I do not see any evidence that all that money did any good. The same will be true for healthcare. It will not deliver anything other than massive debt and skyrocketing premiums.
Yes it will deliver less of a poplulation in the US because a lot of people will die now that would not have died before due to lack of good medical care. Then there will be less people to pay taxes. So where do they think the money is going to come from.
According to Harvard Medical School research, 45,000 a year die from lack of adequate health care, mostly because of lack of insurance.
51 people died before 10:00 AM today.
In three months, more people will die than were killed on 9/11.
In three months more people will die than Americans who were killed in the Iraq war.
Since 2005, more people have died due to inadequate healthcare than died from the atomic bombs dropped in the Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined.
NANNY PELOSI SAYS LET ‘EM EAT RICE CAKE
You left out the 800 Billion the previous group spent to spread Democracy through the Arab world… (BTW, those people get free healthcare now). Didn’t we have a budget surplus when that started 8 years ago?
thank you!!!!! this is what i have been saying; imagine the financial hardship our children will have to bear due to these incompetence law makers!
how r we ever going to pay the money back?
Vote them OUT..These are the same d-bags who have destroyed California “The Golden State”… Think about California under Reagam,, and CA under Pelosi and Boxer… the biggest money ho’s in the history of whoredome….
STOP VOTING FOR THE DEMOCRATS.
well put - the California dems have presided over 25 years of failure.
Voting for democrats is a mental disease. This mental disease eats your brain and all you have left is emotions.
Stop hurting my emotions!
No great empire in history has ever failed because it provided for its citizens. Great empires fail because they are made bankrupt by wars and the occupation of foriegn lands!
It’s time to put the American people first and send the spreading of Democracy out the door!
America has only been a superpower for just over 70 years. It’s an experiment who’s time is over. Did we learn nothing from the British? The Russians? The French? The Spainairds? The Roman’s?
“Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it”
Dwood, you must have gone to schools at Berkeley or U of O. If you believe this, please, go to the country that you think is now in charge.
To your question, “Did we learn anything…” evidently not looking at the current administration and Congress.
Those who forget the past are bound to repeat it.
the Russians were in charge? wow
let me guess, they have always had universal medical care too. how did that work out for them?
by the way how’s it working out for the Brits?
Well the Brits have a higher standard of living than we do. They have a longer life expectancy than we do. A higher infant mortality rate than we do. A higher literacy level than we do. They have a lower murder rate than we do. Health Insurance costs nearly half per person what we pay… so, YOU tell me how they’re doing.
Hey Woodsie….you are totally clueless and your “facts” are way off. Are you joking, or what? Have you ever even been to the UK. I have and I can assure you….you are full of crap.
Yes Red I have been to the UK. Great place. Have you ever been to Alabama? Louisiana? How about Baltimore, Buffalo, Detroit? Or do you think the lifestyle found in the OC is the norm?
We all need to demand that for any bills, this or any other proposed by either party 2 things:
1. They need to certify that they have read it all before voting on it.
2. Any mandates, or anything that is imposed on Americans as a whole should also apply to congress and the President.
If a bill is really as good as they say it is, they should have no problem in having it apply to them as well.
I’m not holding my breath but maybe if we all demanded those common sense things maybe at least more of them would wake up to the fact that we don’t want an elite that hasn’t even read a bill completely voting on it and imposing things on us that do not apply to them.
This whole issue is so ridiculous - If the dems put as much effort into pulling the U.S. out of the recession as they are with this stupid health plan - The economy would be be thriving. We can obviously concure that they are more concerned about imposing their own agenda than really helping the constituants.
Dwoods, don’t know where you studied history, perhaps with Obama at Columbia but the British Empire positively thrived as it ‘occupied new lands’ and made war. It grew and grew until the ‘Sun never Sat’ over its domain and a song was composed entitled ‘Bang, Bang Here Come the British’ which, angrily noted, it was written by an Irish nationalist, that Imperilalism worked.
It was only when Britain came under attack by an equivalent nation state with equal technological and greater manpower called Germany that the formula broke down as each sought supremacy.dominance. Yes you can shoot your way to supremacy. Rome did it for 700 hundred years and Britain for 250 but you have to keep shooting. The minute you stop others sense your weakness and will challenge you.
The decline of the British Empire started with us, by the time of WWI their world wide power was well gone. I suppose you support an Afgan troop increase which will leave us with NO reserve, war only begets more more and profits for corporate war profiters leaving us as a free nation soaked with blood and debt.
maybe if Obama was capable of making a single decision as Commander in Chief that wouldn’t be the case. but alas, he has voted “present” on every proposal shoved in front of him.
Sangell3,
Maybe you should buy some history books that have a time-line. The British surrendered governance over Canada in 1867. Australia took self governance in 1901. New Zealand claimed independence in 1835. India’s independance began before WWII but was suspended during the war effort in exchange for India’s support against Axis countries.
So, as much as there is YOUR version of how history unfolded. There is also what really happened.
Now that we know you haven’t got history right, perhaps you could provide a twisted example of an Empire that failed by supporting its people first, instead of “Nation Building”.
DWoods,
Let’s focus on the matter at hand, okay??
The only people that congress is trying to help with today’s senate health reform bill are the corporatacracy. I can’t believe that you are stupid enough to think it will help the common man.
No taxes on the high income earners > $400,000. That was removed from the bill. Employers are not mandated to provide healthcare for their employees, only pay a fee IF the employee is in an income bracket that requires a gobblement subsidy. Otherwise, the employee has to foot the bill himself.
In fact, if the common man (lower or middle class) does not have insurance he is extorted by the gobblement to BUY A POLICY from a corporate pig AGAINST HIS WILL or otherwise face a fine of THOUSANDS of dollars and possibly go to jail!!!
This Bill is an infusion of $50 BILLION of more revenue into the corporatocracy taken primarily from the lower and middle classes!!!
I thought you were a straight shooter, DWoods. You’re not. You are a democrat mouthpiece. You don’t care about the common man. You are protecting your political party of choice.
I am for single payor, btw. I am for healthcare reform that would actually help the common man. Your partisan cr@p is sickening. You know this is highway robbery of the common citizen. Yet you support it anyway.
You are just as bad as the ones who pooh-pooh reform alltogether. You are just the other side of the extreme. But both sides agree on one thing: SCREW THE LITTLE GUY!!! hah!
Your democrat politicians are taking HUGE bribes from these corporate pigs and you say nothing.
Shame on you, DWoods!!! I thought you were better than that!!!!
“Let’s focus on the matter at hand, okay??”
I’m happy to… when I discuss YOUR comments. But, at this juncture the discussion is with Sangell3 regarding his/her statement. Not one you made.
“Employers are not mandated to provide healthcare for their employees,”
Since when were employers EVER required to provide health INSURANCE for their employees? What laws are you reading?
“I thought you were a straight shooter, DWoods. You’re not. You are a democrat mouthpiece. You don’t care about the common man. You are protecting your political party of choice….You are just as bad as the ones who pooh-pooh reform alltogether. You are just the other side of the extreme. But both sides agree on one thing: SCREW THE LITTLE GUY!!! hah! ”
I never took you to be one of those who can’t accept a different perspective. I spent most of my life in a country with Universal/Single payer. It’s not a system without its flaws. I think what is being proposed is an excellent compromise… unique in the world. Keeping a “for-profit” system in place alongside a public plan appears to be something being discussed in many Uni/single payer countries. Why not be the first to put it into practice?
Be careful that you don’t hurt your ankles by jumping to conclusions about my alliances! I am not a large “L” liberal.
OC
I do agree with you, But you should talk “plural” and add the republicans as well into that matter.
Because the republicans here, do think they have the right solution. Actually their plan is worse. Or no plan at all.
I’m for Universal healthcare for the whole Country. And if we want the Country back, we all have to Pitch-In. period
DWoods wrote:
“I’m happy to… when I discuss YOUR comments. But, at this juncture the discussion is with Sangell3 regarding his/her statement. Not one you made”
Translation: All your points are completely valid. I have no comeback that you couldn’t tear apart. Therefore, I will avoid them completely. I’m smart enough to know when to keep my mouth shut.
DWoods wrote:
“Since when were employers EVER required to provide health INSURANCE for their employees? What laws are you reading?”
You’re a little slow today, aren’t you??
The House bill contained a provision to mandate employers to give insurance to their employees. That has been STRICKEN from the senate bill. Yet MANDATING citizens to BUY insurance from the corporate pigs remains in the Bill!! HAH! If a citizen refused to buy insurance he is fined and even jailed!!! And the employer ONLY has to pay a fee if the employee is low wage and receives a gobblment subsidy for his insurance!!! So this is certainly ’screw the litte guy’ and reward the rich!!! A dem like yourself should be vehemently opposed to such a proposal. But you WELCOME it with open arms because your loyalty of party outweighs concern for the ordinary citizen. Similar to the nazi party of 1939.
Those of us with brains see right through your facade, DWoods. You’re phony.
JC, trust me. I am no friend of the republicans.
Just 2 sides of the same coin. It’s just that the dems are in power now and their TRUE COLORS are showing.
That’s why I am focusing on the dems.
I am non-partisan. I only speak the truth.
Ocobserver,
I am not a registered Dem. I have voted for both parties and will continue to do so. I just haven’t had much reason to vote Republican for the last few years. So, whatever veil you think you’re removing was never there to begin with.
As for employer supplied insurance. You stated that it is now a requirement. It is not, has never been, and will not be so. Why are you on about it? I do not think it should be a responsibility of an employer. As a small business owner, I have enough responsibilities without having to also be a health insurance administrator. Get it?
Obama still has not returned the phone call of the Senator who wants to go line by line of the bill - as Obama said he would do if anyone wanted to meet with him. This Senator has tried to reach him since August. Another OBAMA LIE. Wow, his mom didn’t teach him very well about not telling lies, cheating, stealing and being immoral. A great role model for his children.
yes, Obama turned out to be a MASTER LIAR. Google “7 lies in under 2 minutes” to see a sample of his LIES.
He told us over and over again during the campaign that he would give us the SAME healthcare plan as congress and if we made less than $250,000 it would not cost us an extra dime!!!! LIAR LIAR LIAR!
He also said that he was against mandated healthcare insurance when he debated Hillary. Now he wants to FORCE lower and middle class america to buy a policy and if they don’t he will FINE them $THOUSANDS$ of dollars and throw them in jail if they don’t pay up!!!
Yes, Tomisina. You are right. OBAMA IS A DECEITFUL LIAR!!!! The evidence is everywhere to see!!!
ocobserver,
This is not Obama’s bill. It belongs to the Senate. Obama did not draft one word of this legislation.
Calling him “deceitful” is a bit of a stretch… Of course, I could also use the word YOU chose. But, I think you get the point without it.
DWoods wrote:
“Calling him “deceitful” is a bit of a stretch… Of course, I could also use the word YOU chose. But, I think you get the point without it”
TRANSLATION: yes, you’ve smoked us out again. you even posted proof sources that I will refuse to address. How could I defend videos of Obama telling ‘7 lies in under 2 minutes’?? I can’t. You are correct. Obama is a ‘deceitful liar’. He did promise everyone the same healthcare plan as congress with no one making under $250k paying an extra dime to fund it. He did oppose ANY mandated insurance for citizens when debating Hillary. Now Obama is FOR mandated insurance with fines and jail for those who refuse to obey. You are right. Obama has already made it clear that he supports the senate’s bill. I know that healthcare reform is one of Obama’s primary goals - but not the healthcare reform he touted during his campaign. A new healthcare reform that steals from the poor and gives to the rich.
it’s the House bill, what changes has the Senate even made? they put some lipstick on a pig, and that’s about it. now they’re going to “debate” it.
Obama drafted Nancy Pelosi to write 2000 pages of everything including the kitchen sink, oh except the actual reforms we need.
it’s typical crummyDem thinking to respond to something else entirely, instead of addressing the issue at hand - Obama’s outright lie. hey it was his quote, don’t attack someone else for questioning it!
bps,
that should simply prove to you that DWoods has no credibility.
I used to pay attention to what he said.
Now I know it’s all partisan garbage.
Another phony.
Don’t take him seriously.
Ocobserver,
I think you just have trouble getting your head around debating with someone who has a liberal perspective and also owns a business… For someone who claims not to be a Republican, YOU sure do like to use the labels they rely on - except to identify yourself.
BTW, it will become “Obamacare” when he puts his signature on it. Until then, this bill will have amendments, deletions, and modifications galore. Right now it’s the Senates bill to deal with.
Only a Republican Lemmings call this legislation “Obamacare”. Republicans seem to have forgotten the quote Ronald Regan borrowed from Bismark: who remarked “Legislation is like sausage: it’s better not to watch it being made.”
Tomasina,
I have trouble determining what your issue really is. Are you against health reform or the President?
Do you honestly think the Senator genuinely wants to understand the bill or just wants to make political points with a rabid Republican base?
Remember too, as of yet, no bill has been put in front of the President.
If this is passed by both the House and the Senate, it will be challenged in the courts. The Federal government does not have the riight to require citizens to buy insurans. Look at the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. It is the law. If you don’t think so, do your home work. It will be invalidated if it is passed.
You are correct, Loufca. There is NOTHING in the US Constitution that gives congress the authority to FORCE citizens to purchase a commercial product from a private corporation. NOTHING. I have debated several on this issue and NONE COULD CITE A PROVISION OR AN AMENDMENT OF THE US CONSTITUTION THAT GIVES CONGRESS THIS RIGHT!!!
This is as bad, if not worse, than the old soviet union!!!
What is unconstitutional is the nationalization of the insurance industry. Although there are many examples of the government taking over business.
If what you are saying is accurate, then the requirement for auto insurance would have been challenged years ago.
DWoods wrote:
“If what you are saying is accurate, then the requirement for auto insurance would have been challenged years ago”
TRANSLATION: yes, you are right once again. There is NOTHING in the US Constitution to FORCE citizens against their will to purchase a commercial product from a private corporation under threat of fine and jail. OTHERWISE, I WOULD HAVE POSTED THE APPLICABLE PROVISION OR AMENDMENT! And I am not stupid enough to know that driver’s insurance only applies to those who VOLUNTARILY CHOOSE TO DRIVE A CAR. The healthcare mandates applies to anyone who breathes air!!!! And healthcare falls under federal oversight while insurance is a state regulatory matter. So you’ve got me over a barrel again. I wish you would go away. You are making me look foolish.
apple, meet orange.
its time to recall Barbara Boxer. She is up for a vote next year. Why wait? Why you ask?
1. Author of the cap and trade bill.
2. Support of the Heath care “reform”.
3. Support for TARP.
She needs to go, now.
Big time, Loufca. Hell, she’s worse than GW Bush was!!!!
The old hag!! Time to put her out to pasture!!!!
conservatives, be very afraid, the people of the united states are winning!
Eric,
I hear ya brother!
In a way, it’s sad to see the GOP reduced to its core of extreem conservatives and religious zelots. I know many Libertarians who won’t support them because of their moral stances. But, I guess it’s the tent they wanted to put up all along. Too bad they’re findng out the hard way it became more of a gated country club than a political party.
why would Libertarians support the Republican party? they’re two entirely different parties, and arguably schools of thought.
Only Republicans seem to think they have an allegiance with Libertarians. The Libertarian party sides with the Dems on most social issues. It’s only economic issues that put them on track with Republicans. Libertarians are pro choice, against prayer in school, anti-military, and pro-drug deregulation. When the Republican Party panders to those issues, they lose the Libertarian vote.
“GOP lawmakers hope they can derail the bill before it gets to a final vote and keep Democrats leaders from getting to 60 if it does.”
REALLY? Yeah, you guys have done such a bang up job keeping this monster from getting this far..I’m SURE you’re going to stop it now.
Get ready people…Obamacare will be this country’s demise.
deregulating wall street and 2 wars is this country’s demise
2 wars Obama is still running with no decision (voting “present” is something he’s well known for) on what to do about either of them.
We’d save more money by addressing the obesity epidemic rather than making small insurance changes. If people would stop stuffing themselves with greasy fatty foods, that is the solution to rising healthcare costs.
Ocbear,
You should tell that to the 10 year old in Michigan who has reached his lifetime maximum and now can’t get a prostetic limb covered by his parents insurance company.
Hay let’s put the GOP in charge in washington. they can deregulate wall street. cut taxes for the rich and start two more wars. that will fix the economy. OH they already did that the last 8 years. good job GOP. we want more of this. we are all doing so good now. See we told you 10 months and this guy in office is messing up all the good stuff we did. If we get back in we can get more money from china and give it to wall street. it’s all good your kids can pay for it.
no prob rob — the Obamshevik revolution is taking care of us all. bend over and enjoy it and your progeny will enjoy it for generations to come.
Yep.
And Obama (your messiah) has decided to ’stay the course’.
hah!
Messiah? Really? You honestly think Democrats think that of the President? Or, does it just give you some comfort to sling mud at those with a different opinion?
Someone’s been watching a little too much Faux News.
DWoods wrote:
“Messiah? Really? You honestly think Democrats think that of the President? Or, does it just give you some comfort to sling mud at those with a different opinion?”
TRANSLATION: yes, you are right again. I just wish you would go away. I know that Obama is simply following in the footsteps of GW Bush by punishing the common citizens and rewarding the corporatocracy. But you must understand. I am a dues paying democrat and must defend the status quo to the end. My loyalty for my messiah and my party simply outweighs what is best for the common man. I am a partisan. Those of you with a brain cell should be able to see that. Even when my messiah orders 20-40 thousand more troops into Afghanistan and ESCALATES THE WAR I will still support him. I am a democrat FIRST and a sound minded and responsible citizen next. My party leaders always come first. Even though they are hanging the little guy, the one who they CLAIM to support, out to dry. Whether my messiah ’stays the GW course’, he has my loyalty. That’s who I am.
Ocobserver,
The poor wounded victim doesn’t suit you very well… But, it is funny to read.
60 voted to flush the USA down the toilet.
A Senator sells his vote to the highest bidder these days with total disregard for whats right or wrong, so long as he gets the money, that’s all that matters to them, and you all know it, and this happens because their greedy, and the people couldn’t care less, their stupid you know.
wosomo,
I agree. But, I don’t think it’s greed that motivates them. It’s the system we’ve allowed them to create. If you want to win an election it takes money - lots of money! That’s what needs to change before we truly have proper representation.
In part, this is why so many people were excited by the Obama campaign. Never in our history had a Presidential candidate raised so much from non-corporate donors. Until we stop giving corporations the same rights as citizens, things will never change. Unfortunately, corporations are where most campaign funds come from. Politicians can influence a vote with a well developed advertising campaign. But, they cannot buy advertising without funding.
When Nixon permitted corporations – not people, to own copyrights and patents it changed the fundamental legal perspective of corporations. It was a small change, but it had fundamental repercussions. Until that time, a corporation could only hold a license to a copyright or patent, which meant the underlying ownership, was always held by a person. Not so today. When an employer hires you, he is entitled to any concept or idea you create – regardless of your willingness to give it to them. You have no right to negotiate a contract or the terms of a contract. They own your idea – plain and simple. We have made corporations more powerful than people. Politicians bow to power.
Now, it will take only a simple majority (emphasis on the “simple” as in minded) to put another stake in the heart of what used to be the greatest nation on earth. And that sleaze bucket, Mary Landrieu, will be able to vote nay, and claim she was really against Obamacare. The corruption is rampant in DC (and Sacramento). Welcome to the USSA, comrades!
be careful what you say — the Obamestapo could be watching
In China some 3 years ago, the government wanted cars to get a minimum of 35 mph… Two days later, it was law.
4 years ago, a 40 mile - six lane freeway was needed between two cities that were experiencing rapid growth… It was built in 2 years. In this country, we can’t even get an environmental study done that fast.
Which country would you say is on the rise?
BBR, please get back in your time machine and go back to 1953
When you have communist China as the engine of the world’s economy how can yous elfish right wing nuts complain about affordable medical coverage for all American citizens?
While I don’t want to see illegals get any government support we must address the care they receive in ER. The illegals use of the ER has caused so many to close we need to something about their cost too since we are paying for their treatment.
Ahhh, but the extreme right (not their corporate over-lords) does not want Illegals to get anything. Bit of a dilemma isn’t it?
DWoods wrote:
“Ahhh, but the extreme right (not their corporate over-lords) does not want Illegals to get anything. Bit of a dilemma isn’t it?”
TRANSLATION: I won’t mention that my messiah (his highness Obama) wants to cram amnesty down your throats in the near future that will flood the nation with 20 million more illegal peasants and give them legal residency which means YOU will have to LEGALLY take care of them - food, shelter, healthcare, etc…. And Obama is about to infuse $50 BILLION of new revenue (extorted from the working class) into the corporatocracy (insurers, medical delivery industry, bureaucrats) and not expand healthcare access except under the guise of EXTORTION (that is, forcing citizens to buy HC insurance under threat of fine and jail), which is not supported by ANY PROVISION OR AMENDMENT in our sacred constitution!!!! I know Obama is selling you down the river. But I must support him. I am a registered democrat!!!
Will Rogers once said “I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a democrat”.
HAH!
OC, too bad this bill does nothing of the sort. it is not an immigration reform bill. and seeing how badly the Dems have botched health care ‘reform’, one can imagine how awful their attempt at that would be.
some argue that we should include illegals under this bill. it doesn’t reduce overall costs, and just adds legitimacy to their illegality. any fines or penalties levied against illegals would never be paid. what part of ILLEGAL do people not understand? they do not wish to conform to our laws in any way, shape, or form.
it would also allow good taxpaying Americans to wait in line behind illegal aliens at their primary care doctor. how do you think THAT would go over?
bps,
2010 is going to be a very eventful year.
I think you will begin seeing people take to the streets.
stay tuned.
BPS wrote: “it (including illegals) doesn’t reduce overall costs, and just adds legitimacy to their illegality. any fines or penalties levied against illegals would never be paid.”
I agree that it may legitimize their presence. But, how do you know it will not reduce overall costs? We’re paying for their medical now in the most expensive way possible - through the ER. Treating a cold in a clinic is much cheaper than treating it at a hospital. BTW, 30% of illegals have health insurance through their employers.
If you know anything about immigration law, you would know that immigrating here is simply a matter of money. If you have enough, you’re in. If not, you’re illegal. An E2 Visa (7 years, w/ unlimited renewals) requires only a 250K investment into a business and the hiring of just two staff. They can even be 1099 status. It takes 3 to 6 months to get one - and you can be in the US while you wait for it.
These people have no clue. Shame on the voters why do you elect fools. They can’t run there own house let alone a country. Get them out of HERE!
Since this is such a great health plan why aren’t politicians MANDATED to enroll in it?
Any clear thinking person knows why.
What the Senate and the House has passed is just the start of the process. The Senate will create a bill that will have to be worked out with the house bill. We still have time to change the bill before they vote on the final bill.
If you think health care is expensive now, wait until it’s “free”!
Mrs Clinton goes over to china with cup in hand the president goes over to china with cup in hand all the chines want to know how much this health care program is going to cost them . If they are going to get there money back? President wants to get them to evaluate there currency, the Chines tell our president to kiss there behind. We are broke and the senate keeps spending more chines money. Kick them out next election clean house, get rid of all the rubbish.
China owns us. China is the drug dealer. We are the addict. And now we are hooked beyond recovery. And Obama continues to ask them for more dope.
After reading this post.
I have no choice that all here are mostly Racist, Sheltering behind any government move.
And to end… I agree with many here, you folks don’t deserve nothing less than suffering.
You all still Loyals to the same Party that left you in shambles. Well saying Loyals is a way to put it. But the word is Ignorance.
we need REAL reform starting with tort reform. why do you think malpractice insurance is so high, driving many doctors out of business or to work for giant HMOs? why is there no competition? no portability?
this bill does nothing to address anything of the sort, it is just another giant spending boondoggle.
Are the Reps. going to fight to for tort reform? So far the Reps have just voted no to health care reform.
“Senate votes to start historic health debate.” Dena Bunis, Washington Bureau Chief.Nov. 21, 2009
Historic? I think not. We have all traveled this road before. We all know where this road takes us. We all know where this road ends.
but but this is an ‘historic’ presidency! the media said so! (isn’t every presidency, every election, historic?) someone should tell Jimmy Carter, George H.W Bush, Bill Clinton sorry you won’t be included in the history books, you weren’t historic enough, and see how they react.
and Nancy Pelosi is a hag of historic proportions.
No every President isn’t historic. Obama’s presidency is historic due to the racial history of this country. GW Bush presidency was historic because he was the first and only President appointed to office. Notice that Obama and W are both the first and only ones of their kind?
worst bill ever
You bet it is, bps. We are living in what is called a “kleptocracy”. It is when those in power extort the masses to enrich themselves and the rulers (kleptocrats or the corporatocracy) at the expense of the common citizens. Obama is the driving force here. The dems are not for the little guy. They are pocketing corporate bribes like never before. Selling you out, my friend. Another massive bailout for gobblement and the corporatocrasy on YOUR BACK. See it for what it is.
Let’s get this DONE!
My Kaiser premium just went up another 10% and I am sick of paying for the free-loaders who use emergency rooms for FREE while proclaiming having insurance is an intrusion of of liberties. BALONEY! This tactic is being used to disguise the fact they are not paying for health care, and when they need it, will run to the ER for free services. I don’t buy the argument that they would rather “pay as they use” because let;s face it, a major procedure, which many will need at least once in their lifetime is in the tens of thousands of dollars.
For those who would like to strike out at my comments with fancy speak to belittle me or these FACTS, it is more than likely you don’t have health insurance, are minions of the insurance companies, or get health care provided for free.
Let’s get the costs contained because even though we may have one of the best innovations in health care in the world, we lag far behind in being healthy.
Aren’t Kaiser Hospitals private hospitals owned by Kaiser??? Why would a ambulance take a sick illegal to Kaiser if he’s not a Kaiser member???
Of course, I guess if the illegals walk into a Kaiser ER that Kaiser has to treat him or her whether they like it or not. Too bad they can’t just ship him/her off to a public hospital. Or better yet, put them in a van and transport them to a tijuana hospital. That would be my first choice.
Ocobserver,
Ever hear of Octomom? Guess where she delivered her babies? Kaiser! What “private hospital” just laid off over 250 employees in California? Kaiser!
I thought you supported Uni/single payer? Hmmm. Time for another coloring session, your GOP roots are showing.
Octomom delivered at Kaiser only because Kaiser had an agreement in place with the State of California (through medi-cal) to get full reimbursement for her costs. Otherwise Kaiser would have chucked her fat behind over to a public hospital faster than a rattlesnake bite.
Kaiser is obligated ONLY to stabilize a patient for transport to a PUBLIC hospital for treatment.
I am for single payer over what congress has proposed. And like I told you before, Mr. democrat mouthpiece, now that they dems found 60 votes to avoid cloture they only need 51 to pass the Bill. It’s a done deal now. They won’t have to change squat in the Bill which means the ‘little guy’ whom the dems CLAIM to protect is about to get screwed big time!!! Extortion of lower and middle class american (buy a commercial product from a private corporation or else) to enrich the insurers and the medical delivery system!!!
You know that, DWoods. You’re not stupid. You just REFUSE to admit the truth because you are a puppet for the democrat party. As such, you are driving another nail into the country’s coffin. Sleep sound tonight!!! hah!
Observer,
Kaiser charges far more than Medical pays for the proceedures Octomom recieved. They have publicly stated they would absorb the difference. Add to that your own words ” Kaiser had an agreement in place with the State of California…” That agreement extends to more than just one single patient named Octomom. So, who is picking up the shortfall? Answer: Therealdeal and other Kaiser customers! Why else do you think they just laid off 250 California based workers in an industry that is growing?
You obviously have your mind set that the only way to do something is your way. That’s a shame. You’re clearly a conservative and you like the idea of Uni/single pay health insurance. Why? Because you’ve personally had a bad experience with health coverage. I get that. But, you have never lived in a Uni/single payer system. I did. For 35 years and I’ve experienced some of its problems first hand. Uni/single payer is not a perfect system. It has it’s problems - the biggest being underfunding. So, for you to say I gloss over things is a real hoot for me to read.
Having an expanded public system (this is really just a nationalization of medical) working in existance with a private “for profit” system, will allow the public to compare the two systems on an ongoing basis. It will keep future politicians from gutting the public system. Taking away the private system would give us nothing to compare against and would allow future politicos to slowly degrade the public system through under-funding.
Sure, I could be wrong. We could find out that keeping the two systems in place does not lower costs. But, no one knows that for certain. It’s all speculation at this point because this is something unique. It’s never been tried before. I say why not. It gives those who need insurance the chance to qualify. It stops those who exploit the system by not buying coverage and then stick us with the bill. And, it lets those who want private coverage keep it… I think it does the job needed to be done. We’ll see if that is the case in 5 or 10 years. But, until then I’m not going to agree that your way is the only way. And you should be happy there is going to be a public health system that doesn’t require you to be broke before you can qualify for it.
This is historic! TR would be pleased! Bully! It’s an economic issue. We need reform to keep health care costs down. That will in turn help those paying premiums and small businesses. Small business is the life blood of our economy. What is amazing to me is that National Chamber is against this. Who is the Chamber representing? Small businesses or big donators? It is not like if this doesn’t pass that insurance will go away. It is a multi-national and multi-billion industry that doesn’t care about small businesses. The costs will go up. Small buisnesses will lay off people, which stops consumer spending, which kills the economy.
Debbie,
Have you read the components of the proposal???
It’s basically stealing from the working poor and turning it over to the corporatocracy.
You must be a very loyal democrat to overlook that FACT.
Ocobserver,
Independant doesn’t mean hating both sides.
DWoods,
it doesn’t mean making excuses for either side too.
you gloss over travesties promoted by your democrat messiahs.
I used to respect you. No longer. I see what your motivations are now.
you are just another pundit to me.
I haven’t glossed over anything. I’m not the one jumping up and down ranting that this legislation is locked into its present form. YOU seem to have lost your objectivity and are sounding more and more like a Neo-con sheeple with every post you make. Labels and derogatory titles are the tools of the unenlightened. Maybe you should take some of your health premium money and buy a mirror.
The emergency room bill is enough to make you sick
$5,000 for an ER visit to get 29 stitches.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-lopez22-2009nov22,0,7897760,full.column
OC,
Somebody has to pay for the illegal foreigners who get treated for free.
And that won’t end under Obama’s HC reform either. It will get worse. The illegals will go in line in front of you!!!
HAH!
OCobserver, how soon you forget. It was GOP member Joe Wilson who shouted “you lie” when Obama said that illegals would not be included in the bill. Many not all Dems want to include the illegals in the health care reform. All the GOP members oppose including illegals in the bill. For whatever reason the GOP wants to address the illegals medical care in the immigration reform bill. I say lets address it in both bills.
The courts require us to provide health care service to the illegals. I wish there was some why we can stop the care but, since we can’t we might as well make an effort to reduce the cost of the care.
I am a fan of Joe Wilsons. We should have more legislators calling out their colleague liars more often. But you noticed he got spanked after he did it. Congress has no intention of promoting transparency in their dealings. No more than in reducing their own salaries.
Mexico does a darned good job at protecting their southern border and refusing to pay for the medical treatment of foreigners in their country. They seem to be the smart ones and we are the stupid ones.
Don’t forget. It was GOP’ers who were strong advocates of the last amnesty bill that failed. BUSH was the biggest cheerleader. Also, McCain (who helped write it), Kyl, McConnell, Lindsey Grammesty, etc… So it wasn’t just democrats, my friend. There are many traitors in the republican party as well.
Ocobserver wrote: “I am a fan of Joe Wilsons.”
Wow, what a surprise! Somehow I don’t think that will make it into the print version of the OCR.
I am pro-truth. Doesn’t matter who speaks it, DWoods.
Joe Wilson spoke the TRUTH. Obama is a LIAR. Google ‘7 lies in under 2 minutes’ and see for yourself.
Joe Wilson should be given an award for calling out the LIAR in public. One of the only man in congress with a set of nads.
You believe your ignoramus party leaders regardless of what they say because you have outted yourself as a partisan hack.
We know how the game is played. All the dems voted in favor of continuing the debate because NOW it only takes 51 votes to pass the bill instead of 60. Knowing this quite well, the moderate dems will be able to vote against the final legislation because the dems will get the 51 votes even if the moderate dems vote ‘no’ to save their seats. hah. If the voters are smart they will understand that and vote ALL the dems out who voted against cloture.
Joe Wilson election contributions:
$86,150 – Pharmaceuticals
73,050 – Insurance Industry
$68,000 – Hospitals and Nursing Home Companies
Yeah, Joe is a real straight shooter on public health. LOL
Sure, Joe Wilson in on the take like all the rest of the crooks in Congress. But at least he has the nads to call the ‘executive democrat’ a LIAR in a public formum.
And you can’t argue the fact that Obama is an outright LIAR, DWoods. Read my previous post with PROOF SOURCES!! hah!
But you won’t address that, will ya?? No, you gloss over it. Why?? Because you are intellectually dishonest. You are a partisan hack.
WELFARE ON DEMAND
Joe Wilson might have nads, but he has no brains. Unfortunately, there are too many people in this world with nads and no brains.
alterego,
nads are in very short supply in america. ($1000/pound)
if you call ‘brains’ being dishonest, deceitful, greedy and corrupt then I’ll take ‘nads’ over ‘brains’ any day of the week!
There is an overabundance of ‘brains’ in america ($0.25/pound).
When will my taxes go up to pay for this? I’m poor, but one thing I know, I will be paying for this one way or the other.