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Former acting sheriff recommends jail overhaul
October 27th, 2009, 6:03 pm · 115 Comments · posted by Jennifer Muir
Former Assistant Orange County Sheriff Jack Anderson made a surprise appearance this afternoon at the board of supervisors meeting, promoting an idea to remove county jails from the sheriff’s department’s control and establish a new correctional agency to run them instead.
Anderson was speaking during public comments at the end of today’s meeting, and his three-minute time limit ran out before he could finish describing his proposal: Remove 95 percent of jail guards and replace them with non-sworn officers.
You might remember that former Sheriff Mike Carona appointed Anderson in 2008 when he resigned. (An earlier version of this post erroneously said Anderson was appointed by supervisors.)
Sheriff Sandra Hutchens, who was appointed by supervisors and will run in her first election next year, laid off Anderson and six other top ranking officers in August so she wouldn’t have to give pink slips to investigators, she said at the time.
Anderson said today that he’s considering whether to run against Hutchens for sheriff and has met with political consultants (he wouldn’t say who) and has been volunteering with the Republican party.
“I told them I’m very interested in running, but I want to feel comfortable I’d win the race,” he said. “I’m looking at it.”
Anderson was quick to add that his appearance before the board has nothing to do with that possibility. Instead, he says he came because the practice of using deputies in the jails is “a ludicrious, poor practice that taxpayers are having to shoulder the burden of.”
“It’s just one of those blatantly wrong things that needs to be fixed,” said Anderson, who noted he’ll be collecting severance checks from the county until early January. “I’m getting a check every pay period. I might as well do something to earn it.”
Here’s his argument: Taxpayers pay to train deputies for patrol, but they end up spending eight years in the jails before they’re eligible to leave. And most choose not to transfer to a patrol job when they become eligible because they can make more money (night pay boosts) and have a more consistent schedule if they stay in the jails. So taxpayers foot the bill for highly trained, highly expensive deputies to guard inmates when less expensive staffers could do the job. He estimates his plan could save the county tens of millions of dollars and divert resources to beef up patrol and investigations staff.
Anderson said he proposed the idea when he was still on staff at the department, but Hutchens decided against it. Instead, she opted to allow up to 35 percent nonsworn guards and keep the jails under her department’s control, he says.
Anderson said that he couldn’t come to last week’s meeting, when Hutchens gave a report about the state of the jails and an update about the correctional workers, because he was at the trial of ex-Lt. Bill Hunt. Hunt sued the county for being demoted after he ran against Carona for sheriff and lost. (Hunt also lost his case.)
“One thing we learned from the Hunt trial is you don’t criticize your boss,” Anderson said this afternoon. “I’m not being critical of Hutchens now, but I am being critical of the design of the organization and how it’s not effective. “
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DENA BUNIS, Washington bureau chief, 202-628-6381 or dbunis@ocregister.com
BRIAN JOSEPH, Sacramento correspondent, 916-449-6046 or bjoseph@ocregister.com
JENNIFER MUIR, County government reporter, 714-796-7813 or jmuir@ocregister.com
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Funny how Jumping Jack Flash has now decided that the OC Jails should be ALL private. Think he is just trying to get into the light of things since they shut the dept. door on him.
Go Retire Jackie !!
Here is are stats showing the excellent job OC deputies are doing as compared to 30 of the largest jail systems in the country. OCJ comes out with the LOWEST death rate of them all. How much would each jail death cost the county as compared to backgrounding and hiring and deputy that can then be used later in the field or to assist with disaster relief? No deputies in the jails equal a higher death rate.
Jurisdiction 2000-2006 Deaths Inmate Pop Death Rate
Los Angeles County237 19,062 0.0124
Dallas County 75 7,354 0.0101
San Diego County 71 5,117 0.0138
Orange County, Ca 30 6,455 0.0046
Orange County has the LOWEST death rate percentage out of 30 of the largest local jail systems in the nation. This is due to the well trained deputy who passed a rigorous background check and training. Civilian staff who pass a much lesser background check and far less training don’t compare. Deputy’s can then go on to patrol and also assist with natural disasters, fires, mudslides, terror threats etc. How much would an inmate death cost the county vs training a versatile deputy?
Jurisdiction Deaths Inmate Pop Death Rate
Los Angeles County 237 19,062 0.0124
Dallas County 75 7,354 0.0101
San Diego County 71 5,117 0.0138
Orange County, Ca 30 6,455 0.0046
He will NEVER win in 2010! Go away, JA, we don’t want you.
Anderson had the rug pulled out from under him by his political enemy, Constable Hutchens, and now he wants to cause as much trouble as he can for her! hah! Payback is a whatever! Anderson never talked like this while he was the acting sheriff. At least now we’re finally getting some honesty out of him. And Anderson’s rationale makes perfect, perfect sense. No reason to use $100k plus cops to babysit inmates awaiting trial or transfer to the big house. Civilians are quite capable of that with the proper training. When you are graced with a badge and gun you aren’t suddenly decreed with superhuman talent or power. In these severe economic times we have to save as many taxdollars as we can. Anderson’s plan is a good one. Let’s implement it.
And Anderson’s rationale makes perfect, perfect sense. No reason to use $100k plus cops to babysit inmates awaiting trial or transfer to the big house. Civilians are quite capable of that with the proper training.
==========================
They make another $100K in benefits. $200K total.
BUT-I don’t think non sworn is the way to go, this is a serious and potentially very dangerous job-not just for the sheriffs but for the inmates-as people have been killed in that jail by inmate on inmate violence.
I think the SOLUTION is just to cut the sheriffs pay in half-at least. There is no reason to pay GED sheriffs $200K per year. They do need academy trained sheriffs running the jails-and if they paid a market wage they would have no problems.
And they would still have 100 applications for every 1 open sheriff position even if they cut pay in half.
I love how you pull figures out of your ass. The only one I see, with a GED, is you.
The one figure he didn’t pull out was that there would be 100 candidates (actually probably more) for every opening if the pay and benefits were reduced by half. And, that was really his point.
During the BOS review of candidates, you might recall Kevin Keyes recommended privatizing some or parts of jails and had discussions with a company well known to the jail community that has an excellent track record.
Geez, Jack. What a tool!
How about this…..you REQUIRE Deputy II’s to go to patrol (just like they signed up to do….it’s in the job description that they agreed to when they hired on) when their turn comes up. If they “flunk” patrol, DEMOTE them to Deputy I. That will tremendously cut down on the number of folks who come out to patrol to “try it”.
Are all of you that oppose this guy’s great plan, deputies? I’ll bet you are or are married to a deputy. The jails do not need to be run by Sheriff Deputies and he said nothing about making them private jails. the county would still opertate them just not with the use of overpaid and over-trained deputies. Most of the hard core inmates are in the pods where a monkey could watch them. Push the button and let them out four cells at a time; not rocket science and surely not cost effective to have deputies doing it. You could save big dollars by having CST’s handle the job. But, if I were a deputy I would want my cushy babysitting gig too.
I will agree with t-real that CST’s can handle a lot more of the responsibilities in the jails, but we do need to have our well trained deputies in the jails to handle the the incidents that we do not have the training for. Also people have to understand that there isn’t anywhere to put all these deputies that now work our jail system. Every city within the county that the Sheriff Depatment patrols has a budget for that praticular city which allows them to have the amount of deputies that currently work within that city. If those cities had more money then yes, by all means lets put more deputies out there, but that is not the case. We have hundreds of deputies working the jails where would we put them, if the jails were run by non-sworn staff.
If this was something the Sheriff Department or Board of Supervisors wanted to do with the jail system, then maybe they should have thought about this before we hired all these deputies and spent the money on doing so.
What is going on right now in the Sheriff Department is not fair to any of it’s employees. We pay people big money to analyze the future of the department . Why couldn’t they see this coming? I’ll answer that, because no one cared what was going as long as the upper echelon was getting paid. It didn’t matter what happened to everyone else. Now look at the mess we are in !!!!
Why not do what we do in the private sector???
When a certain degree of manpower is no longer necessary or cost effective people get layed off.
Perhaps the county could hire back the layed off deputies as CST’s. I think that would be a fair proposal.
Why should the public sector be run any differently than the private sector???
ocobserver,
Have you been inside? Its more than that you or most public can think.
Its more that just “Hey inmate.. can you lock it down or move over there?”
Just the last couple of nights… Fri and Sat… 2 major fights with PAID Deputies.
Run government like a business? I don’t think so. The business model works fine for making money but when increasing shareholder wealth becomes the overiding goal, trouble soon follows. Business should be run like business and government should be run like government the goal being the greatest benefit for the greatest number of people at the most effective cost. Suggest that as a goal to shareholders and see what they tell you. In case you haven’t noticed, the private sector has not performed too well of late and has the best educated minds in the country working it. I think privatization of government services works well only if there is sufficient competition in the marketplace for the service in question. If there isn’t, taxpayers get stuck with high rates and poor customer service. It happens all the time in the private sector just ask any Time Warner cable subscriber.
“Supervisors appointed Anderson”???????? No, Jennifer, they didn’t. Carona appointed Anderson. Anderson was appointed to serve as Acting Sheriff by Carona.
True and maybe not so true, He was appointed by Carona and had to be approved by the BOS. This was after Galisky initially declined the position from Carona.
Deputies should be on the street catching criminals, not babysitting them in jail. The state has a department of corrections, so why not the county. This sounds like an idea whose time is right.
They need to follow this Arizona jail system. Save us TONS of $$$$ annually!
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/m/miracopjail.htm
It is No good to do a right thing at Orange County Sheriff Dept. You have to lay off these surplus Sheriffs. Each one costs a lot of money which include nice salary, huge overtime, generous health plan, big retirement, status, respect, and easy jobs.
exactly!
Sheriff Joke has to cut corners to pay for all of those lawsuits that are over his failure to train and Supervise his Jail Guards. 45 million paid out to date. The pink underwear is now considered a badge of honor among the gangsters in Maricopa County. Joke is great at the publicity but bad at the actual sheriffing. Remember while he is out catching Juan the illegal Gardener, Bubba the Rapist Robber is running free!
Sounds like a very smart idea.
Love ya, law enforcement.
But:
Taxpayers have reached the limit.
Enough featherbedding with the public employee unions.
They’ll run the country, the state, and the county into bankruptcy.
This “new” idea has been around forever!!! The problem with OCSO is it’s an Empire that doesn’t want to let go of sworn staffing…It should have happened long ago, the department never had to become so large.
Jack and J.B Davis had plenty of time to implement new ideas, but did nothing except collect a paycheck. They both had blessed careers skipping rungs on the latter that finally ended with the rug being pulled out from under them, too bad, so sad….Karma
All of the jails can be operated by trained correctional officers, supervised by senior sworn deputies. A very viable option.
WELL WELL! Looks who’s tghinking of running for sheriff. Now that would get me to vote for Sandy! This guy is a major Carona man and you don’t want him!!
johhnyB, you are on the right track re:Anderson. GOD help us. I thought he was DONE!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! You all have no idea what a suck-up this guy is and the further damage he would do to the morale of the department. I’m not an LA style Hutchens supporter, but I’d vote for the lesser of 2 evils in a heartbeat.
marinevet0811,
All I heard from when he was TEMP sheriff, that he pretty much did anything just to make him look good…. like kissing up the the Board of Soups.
Funny how Jack…. no need to address him by any other title… comes out from the moth balls now. Looking for a job or some cash, Jack ?
This guy needs to open a used car dealership, that is his true calling. Just look at him, he has used car salesman deep in his blood. I would vote for Carona before I would vote for him. I will quit the Sheriff’s Department and be a homeless man before he is our Sheriff
Funny you say that…. I have heard that from some of the members that live on my streeet say that….and what i mean member…. OCSD deputies.
I guess Anderson ran out of time, before he could offer to run this “new” Department. Look for Anderson and a consulting firm to float an actual proposal to take over the jails. The Sheriff’s budget shortfall for the next fiscal year, is now $80 million. I would not want to be a probationary Deputy right now.
Creating a whole new corrections department in these times is a waste of our tax dollars! Did Jack not learn anything from the Marshal take over of the Sheriff’s Civil Bureau & Warrants in the early 1980s? For the Sheriff to abdicate his, or in this case her, statutory obligations to run the jail would require new legislation (we know how good with taxpayer money Sacramento is) and costly changes. I do think that a Correctional Deputy classification for many positions in the jail would work fine and be more cost effective. San Diego and Riverside Counties both have career Correctional Deputy Sheriffs and it seems to work. Maintaining regular deputies in the jail as well provides good supervision, a good training platform, a cadre of personnel to investigate crimes (bad guys don’t stop being bad guys just because they are locked up), and a source of sworn deputies for all the other non-jail positions as well as for emergency surge needs. Another agency or worse yet, a private security guard company is not cost effective, either directly or indirectly.
After the Grand Jury looked into the John Chamberlain murder and found that the sherrif deputies that worked in the jails lied under oath, slept on the job, erased evidence and had code words for alerting the lazy no good bums to act busy, act like you are working and to wake-up when someone with authority was coming into their area, they should have fired every deputy that worked in the jails.
Things will not change until the public employee uions are dissolved and public workers are held accountable for their lack of integrity and dispicable actions.
marinevet0811 says:
You all have no idea what a suck-up this guy is and the further damage he would do to the morale of the department
=============================
marinevet-please, you are just a military workfare hire with the brain power of a circus chimp. If you didn’t get your workfare you would be towling off the cars at the carwash.
Maybe if Johnny Blaze (in red font) went to school, maybe he could check post before posting for grammer errors.
WAIT, before you TRY to attack me “JohnnyBlaze”, I have been around many years before your so call knowledge…. so post with caution.
Gosh Johnny Blaze Ghost Rider - please tell us how you really feel about anyone who disagrees with you! “brainpower of a circus chimp”? Tell me that the public, or the deputies, protested with this guy was let go and I’ll tell you what credance he had while on the job. He clearly was a suck-up to be one of Carona’s right hands. Looks like he missed his chance to present these ideas to Carona now blames Hutchens. Sure, tell him to run in 2010 - maybe he’ll get the message that 2nd time.
Hey Johnny I was just at Wal-mart and there was no greeter, did you call in sick again?
Jacka$$ is a total buffoon! He did his best as the acting sheriff to placate moorlach and dismantle the department. He was very instrumental in playing up to T-Rack by giving away part of the DNA lab, a HUGE mistake which has cost the County big $$ so far.
He also put forward a skewed proposal to use civilian staff instead of deputies in the jails using made up numbers to justify the savings. He also made moves to separate the Coroner’s Division from the Department. All of this in order to get the appointment that Hutchens got.
Bottom line is that Jumpin’ Jack got punked and only got one sympathy vote during the appointment process. Now, he’s got this brilliant idea! How convenient, just in time to run for sheriff.
Don’t waste your time and $$ Jack…it ain’t gonna happen.
Yeah Jack. Save your money for your son’s education.
livinlargeinoc.
2′nd that……
Jack, and only Jack to you, just go away…. move on… accept your fate and just RETIRE.
Your name is NO LONGER attached to the OCSD… so i have been told… they say you are HISTORY….. MOVE ON…. ITS OVER!
why can’t we get decent honest people that understand OC culture to run. I have yet to see one. Of course it seems that way with most political positions, instead of voters being able to choose the best candidate for the job, we always are left choosing the lesser evil.
“Decent, honest people that understand OC culture.”
HAHAHAHAHA!!! Good luck with that one! HAHAHAHAHAHA! The decent, honest people left Orange County a long time ago. What’s left are the lying sacks of pus. Example #1-OCDA’s Office.
We need a new Sheriff
Jack seems like a good guy and this is a good proposal. I don’t think he was as close to Carona as it appears (he definately wasn’t there in the beginning), but in politics, appearances are everything and there is an appearance that he was too close to Carona so I don’t think he has a chance.
400 deputies will be force out on the street to work patrol. Great idea. The SHEriff promoted all those Deputy II’s to gain their support last July. The sworn union has never endorsed a winner in the last three elections, why change now.
I remember when Jack passed over anybody that didn’t want to promote to end up on the street. A court case was filed over that. Trying to save the taxpayers money, what a concept.
JackLoser suckup backstabber Anderson has NO creditbility when it come to the Sheriffs Department. He was hated by one andall who worked there and coulnd’t wait unti the current Sheriff saw what A loser and backstabber and she was smart enough to dump him. Anderson Never had any support among Rank&file and very little among the political establishment. Just accept the fact Jack Your a LOSER!!!!!!!
We need a hard nosed businessman who isn’t scared to step on toes running OCSD. Someone who know a debit from a credit and can sniff out waste and fraud. Someone who isn’t a lap dog for the union. I see no reason for the sheriff to be LE. We need a tough guy with common sense who has the mocksey to know BS when he sees/hears it and call people on it. He’s the one who would get my vote. All the sudden Anderson turns into a tough guy after Hutchen’s axes him. A day late and a dollar short.
ocobserver,
Why don’t you run? I’ll vote for you.
Yes because we have seen how well “Hard nosed” Businessmen do; in fact we can recruit from the Banking or Auto industry!
So you are ready to cross that bridge, private citizens switching from dog catcher to county correctional officer. Hmmm, sounds good on paper but the problem is not all supervision, It is overcowding, conviction rates, immigration and non-violent drug users clogging the system. Money is the issue here and without it we can’t really change or revamp anything.
I think when you do the numbers you will find the trade off is little or about the same. What you will have is a lot of employees underpaid and cashing in on illegal transactions, tobacco, drugs, favors and sex. Everybody wants to look at Arizona, look at New Mexico, Bernallio County Detention Center, hmmm,
sat18veteran and several other past and present sta 18 personnel that post on here worked with Anderson. Luckily, I retired before he was appointed by CARONA to assume the duties of sheriff. Anderson always had a distinct motive for any of his actions from deputy through his last assignment, and that was whatever Jack Anderson could get out of it. Unfortunately, there are still those types working there. And until they are weeded out, things will never change at good ole OCSD. All it will do is become LASO South, which is already happening under “SANDY AND THE SUPREMES”. I’m glad I retired when I did, as timing is everything. I’m still pulling for Bill Hunt and will be campaigning for him. I tell people who don’t know me I retired from the OC Fire Authority. Alot less conversation that way. It has to get better. And ocobserver, Carona wasn’t really LE, he was nothing more than a bailiff who bought his way to Marshal, then Sheriff. His plan was to make it big in Sacramento, then D.C.! He never made an arrest or drove a patrol car in his entire career. And look what a non-LE guy did to the department. Shameful and disgusting! The thought of Jack Anderson is bringing up my dinner. ADIOS y’all.
You don’t need to be a medical doctor to run a hospital. Why do you need to be a cop to run a police department?
This system is what San Diego County does. The have their own Correctional Officers for the Jails and then the Deputies for patrol.
I think I agree with the EX sheriff. If a recruit goes to the academy to be trained to be a patrolling deputy, he or she will forget all of that information when they finally go to patrol in 8 years. IF they decide to go to patrol.
I think the REAL overhaul needs to happen for firefighters tho. I know a couple of guys who CASH IN, with the system they have. My firefighter friend pulls in almost 1,000 dollars in a day of overtime!!! I have another Nor Cal fire fighter friend who really milks the overtime at his department.
FIREFIGHTERS should have their paychecks cut Before Deputies.
ocobs, check on a thing called the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training, otherwise known as POST. It is required and a state mandate for Police Chiefs to have certain levels of training and POST certifications in order to secure a management position on a department. A CA Sheriff’s Department requires the same, even though the Sheriff is an elected position. It’s all about liability and dollars for the state. POST has a web site. Jump on and enjoy. Just trying to help you understand the way it works. If you feel you can change it, let me know and I’ll watch the news for the janitor’s promotion to police chief! You are correct that a doctor isn’t necessary to run a hospital, but a doctor is required to hold the position of Chief of Surgery. It’s good to know as much as or more than those under you.
One of the biggest problems with the Sheriff’s position, in this County anyway, is that its an elected office. Does the Sheriff really provide law enforcement county-wide today? I don’t think so. The lion’s share of actual police work is done by municipal departments. The OCSD does very well in forensics and other highly technical servoces that it provides through contracting. The deputies cover a lot of territory but they just don’t see the action Anaheim, Santa Ana and Garden Grove police do. All of those agencies have hired chiefs. The County should do the same. Let’s take the politics out of this and continue the fine regional services OCSD provides to our cities.
marinevet,
Oh stop it. what is Post, a 4-6 month course? As if a well-education, saavy businessman couldn’t grasp a post curriculum? hah. you people are trying to make cops out to be intellectual giants and superheroes who are irreplaceable. Far, far from the truth. Look at all the trouble the cops at the top have caused OCSD. Waste, corruption, favortism. lax rules for underling cops, etc… it all needs to be cleaned up. I don’t think it can be done with cops in charge. We need an outsider with a completely different point of view and who brings in a completely different operation of management. Otherwise we just get more of th same. We’re turning into Tijuana! You just want to retain all the power. Sorry, we live in a democracy. You are fed with public funds. If you want to make your own rules quit you job and start your own business. Until then, the people will decide how we want our government run!
I went to a legal update class a couple years ago and Jack Anderson was there. He didn’t pay attention to the instruction because he was on his computer the entire time. Doing what? Who knows. I know he wasn’t paying attention to what he was there for.
Former Assistant Orange County Sheriff Jack Anderson is crook like the rest.
That’s very eloquent and well stated carlos. So few words with such an impact.
Orange county jail reform…
and orange county courthouse reform
is needed now for everyones rights and safety.
I knew Jack Anderson for years…….and you could always tell when he was lying…….his lips would move.
I say we give inmates a set of keys and let them take care of themselves!
Finally someone with sense. The fact someone who claims to be from “station 18″ is opposed to Mr. Anderson’s plan is all I need to know!
Sorry union flunkies…..it looks like we have a new cost cutter in town! It is about time. When is that election anyway?
How much do we pay this person to make such profound statements?
Or did his kid come out with it in a school report?
Bet we pay a ton for the retirement of this guy too!
Our cost for all these worthless servants has arrived.
Each year we go deeper in dept due to them, and our past mistakes dealing with their unions.
KC
Anderson has the right idea here with replacing expensive deputies with modestly paid correctional officers. It’s good to see someone is coming up with ideas to save money and ensure public safety remains intact. This idea needs to be moved forward and adopted to start saving money as soon as possible. We already know our appointed sheriff won’t do it. Or the Board of Supervisors can do nothing and layoff hundreds of county employees to feed the waste occurring at the sheriff’s office.
Jack is a good man and was one of the best Sergeants I ever had, but I don’t think he would make a good Sheriff. If his ideas where more than just a cry for attention and an attempt to ignite his bid for public office he would have brought them forth sooner. Further, be careful what you wish for. Taking Deputies out of the jail may save you money in salaries and benefits, however, you will pay that out in increased lawsuits brought on by less trained, less qualified staff.
Not true at all.
Santa Ana jail is run with civilian guards. The lawsuits there are miniscule in numbers, per capita, and $amount$ awarded as compared to what we’ve seen at OC jail.
You just don’t want to relinquish the power. We can train civilians as well as the deputies given a few months time. Look at all the problems we’ve had in the OC jail in the last 3 years! That’s what we get in return for all that upscale training and highly paid personnel??? Come on. Why do you think we’d even begin to buy what you’re telling us. It’s flies in the face of common sense.
The inmates that cause problems, are moved to the O.C. jail. You can not compare a city jail, that houses pre sentenced inmates, with County jail custodies that include heavy duty murderers, rapists, gang members and child molesters.
Santa Ana books all their proplem inmates, medical and violent, in the county jail.
Well, there goes that theory ocobserver…
Unless you have worked there, or spent any significant amount of time, “inside security,” and understand the issues based on first hand experience, rather than what you have read in the OC Register, you really aren’t informed enough to have an opinion.
So why would you think a well trained civilian couldn’t handle a murderer, a gang member, a rapist or a child molester??? I know many civilians who are probably much bigger and badder than you could ever hope to be. They would do just fine in the OC jail. I’ve seen some of the stuff you people hire. A complete joke. I saw a female OCSD officer patrolling the streets the other day. She couldn’t have been over 5′3 and 100 pounds. What good would she be confronting a couple gang bangers. All she has is that hog hanging down at her side which is practically as big as she is. So what. What a waste of money and personnel. Her dad is probably a captain or assistant sheriff.
To ocobserver:
Santa Ana jail can run their jail with civilian guards, because they bring over all their problem inmates and the inmates with the serious charges over to OCSD. I understand they have Federal inmates and an Ad-Seg. Mod, but those guys are let out of their cells one hour a day at different times. The environment is much different then the County. We deal with everything from the murder, the rapist, the child molester and every other crime on down. Also not to mention every DUI idiot that comes in every night, who seems to think or maybe is not thinking that they have to listen to any directive their are being given, because they are drunk and can’t understand why they are in jail. Did I forget to mention all the uncooperative inmates that we have to accept. These are the people who like to spit, punch, kick out patrol car windows and anything else they could do to be deemed uncoop.
At the OCJ we have to accept everyone regardless if we want to or not. We do not have a choice that is why we are county and an all civilian staff would not work. We need fully trained Deputies to deal with these matters.
That is why Santa Ana jail can run with civilian staff. If you have a chance take a tour over there. Inmates have microwaves and , coffee krafts available to them in their dayrooms. I wouldn’t consider the inmates to dangerous if you trust them with these items available to them to use as a potential weapon.
2355, sound about right from the knowledge I have been told. Consider the OCJ…. and I am talking about the Intake Release Center (not the sheriff’s so-called term (LA?).. Intake Reception Center)…. as the county dump. Every city and the deputies of OCSD drop off their arrestees there. I’ve been told about 150-200 per day new arrest/bookings. I been told… this is where it all begins for someone arrested and this is where it all happens…. those deputies dealing with the worst of the worst.
“At the OCJ we have to accept everyone regardless if we want to or not. We do not have a choice that is why we are county and an all civilian staff would not work. We need fully trained Deputies to deal with these matters”
No we don’t. We need fully trained civilians who work at half the pay and pension rate than a deputy sheriff. That’s who we need. Just cuz you have a gun and a badge it doesn’t make you better trained or a superior guard than a civiian could be. Your rationale makes zero sense. Take some time and rethink your position.
All that kissing-up to Carona, Hutchens and the BOS got Jacko exactly where he needed to be: Outta there. His “consultants” are nothing more than former Carona supporters who still think the department is for sale.
The jail system is corrupt, The Guard’s Union is corrupt, Hutchens, Carona and Anderson are all corrupt.
When will the sheeple ever learn. This is just another way to fleece our pockets so they can take care of their own… We are are regressing into a Police controlled state. The similarities to Germany pre WW2 are immense. Everyone should be scared of these power mongers and how they twist lies and force feed us to believe them. We need to Wake up America!!!.. take our county, state, country back!!!! Enough is enough already!!!
Several Counties all over the US have tried privatizing the Jails….It doesn’t work ! You think you have lawsuites now !!! The studies are there. Would make no difference if they are run privately or independant of the Sheriff’s Dept. The Jail system is mean’t to be run by the Sheriff. As for Jack ! hey man, get over it… You would never win if you ran for Sheriff. You would never ever get the backing of OCSD….
Why do you think the state of florida only pays $19000 a year to house a prisoner while california pays $49000? Because florida uses civilian correctional guards. That’s why. And inmate lawsuit cases are fewer there than here. Many counties outside the state of california use civilian guards. It’s just that the mafia unions in california have such a stranglehold on the politicians that we are dinosaurs and keep paying people $200k a year to babysit the bad boys. Civilians are just as capable as sworn cops to guard the bad boys. What makes you think that the cops are so better qualified? Just look at the events in the OC jail in the last 3 years. The proof is in the pudding.
This guy did not stand up to Carona and backed Hutchens and promoted her CCW policy. Jack is not a leader but a follower and not fit to lead the OCSD.
BILL HUNT FOR SHERIFF!
Anderson is just another Orange County Republican hack, except this time, they must have cut him loose because non of the OCGOP paid bloggers seem to be sticking up for Anderson on this blog…
Okay, I could just kick myself for getting drawn into these assinine arguments by people that know exactly ZIP about the subject being discussed.
Most of the arguments on this column are inane, pointless and ridiculous because you speak from lack of experience and knowledge on the subject. Strictly one sided without consideration for the alternate viewpoint.
Opinion is NOT knowledge unless you’ve enjoyed the experience of the subject. The worst of course is this blithering mouth “OCOBSERVER”. It has an “opinion” on everything, not knowledge but opinion which makes him a complete idiot and asshole.
I agree, OCSD has a small inmate cout, very little if any violence inside the jail. The problem you have is this, the Deputies inside their go to that dept solely for the purpose of spending an entire career inside the jail. Some of those deps have been fired or rejected from other agencies. They cant cut it on the street, so they go there to sit around. Watch, make it mandatory to go to patrol, and watch the lawsuits flow through the courts.
Send them to the street, lol….
Hey, knucklehead “Lets have a Carona” Hunt was in the car with Carona until Carona left him to hang with the Haidl marijuana incident. Hunt would be a Carona crony if it wasn’t for being thrown to the wolves. He tries to create an image, he stood up to Carona, the reality is he never did. He did it only when Carona wiped his hands clean of him.
simple, Hunt lacks any real expeirence. A Lt of a small pint size station is a joke. The station gets like 78 calls a month. Thats slower then Malibu. It’s funny, how OCSD thinks they work.
That was not Haidls marijuana it was the other kids. Hunt has clearly said even if the kid was a dirt bag he should still be afforded basic constitutional rights. Do you arrest someone if they were not the person with the marijuana?
DO YOU?? He didn’t try to stand up to Carona he did. How many people do you know actually will call out their own boss as corrupt. The funny thing is he was right and his cronies are now convicted felons.
They tried to discredit Hunt and that went under a full investigation by Carona. If that was actually true then the truth would of came out. However people like your self making up lies trying to bring back Carona’s old smear tactics.
Jack Anderson was a pupet for the board of supervisors while ACTING sheriff. He never really did anything worth while while he was in that position. He was just trying to keep his job. Like most that carona promoted, he should never have been in that position. Like Hunt, he is just another washed up OCSD administrator trying to get his foot back in the door. They do this because he cannot make it in the real world. Jack, move on and let the department heal. Hutchens is doing a fine job.
you’d better flush your stash ocobserver, your parole agent is on his way. There goes the water pressure along with common sense!
Folks, there’s nothing new in this proposal. The problem is it makes too much sense, so it has been ignored. A committee of sergeants, as a training project, wrote it up and submitted it to Sheriff Gates in 1998, and made available to Carona in ‘99. San Diego and Riverside counties have been doing it for years: Correctional Deputies and Enforcement Deputies, three month basic training for one, six months for the other, different pay scales and benefits. All the recent commotion over a “new” CSA class of employee is a waste of time and costly because of union conflicts over the relative dutiesof deputy/corr. service tech. (CST), and the new CSA, whatever that is. Too bad nobody at the SO, specifically Jack Anderson and Sheriff Hutchens, had the common sense to make a coupla phone calls and visit to our neighbors to see how it works.
Oh, both were (are) quite aware of how well the system worked elsewhere. But when you’re in the back pockets of the union it’s easy to ignore the pesky facts. Anderson’s a day late and a dollar short. Although his idea is a good one the fact that he waited to communicate it until he was shoved under the bus tells us everything we need to know about him. It’s almost impossible to find a straight shooter with integrity anymore. All liars and self-serving misfits. It’s a shame what this society has turned into. Rotting from the head down.
Speaking of rotting from the head down, you might want to take that tin foil pyramid of your head to relieve some of the built up heat…it’s affecting your thought process.
get your information and facts straight before posting Mike. Bill Hunt was never a Carona cronie, and he was completely left out of the loop when the Haidle dope decision was made. It was between the patrol sergeant, the watch commander and the now felon, Jaramillo. Bill was livid when he learned what had occurred. He pressed for “crime-bail-crime” but was fought every step of the way.
BILL HUNT FOR SHERIFF!
Sounds to me like Jack Anderson may be involved in a company that provides civilian corectional officers. As so elequently stated by someone above, Jack has always been for Jack.
Jack was always a master at working his employment around his Tee-Times.
When will this idiot go away. No one care about his policies when he ran the department and nobody cares about them now.
Conflict of Interest sofedup? Not anyone from the Carona administration….I’m amazed anyone would think that Jack “it’s all about me” Anderson would ever think such a thing. hahahahaha…
He learned well from the masters, Carona and Jaramillo.
Yes, it is a worthy idea and one that should have been implemented years ago. A cost effective way to manage the jail system.
However, the issue is why did Gates, Carona, Anderson, and Galisky refuse to iconsider something along this line and think outside the box. Same with the current sheriff.
Simply, becausee of losing a political power base and control. Should this program be implemented, the deputies union will suffer membership losses because hiring will be limited since there will now be more patrol deputies on the street, but fewer new hires to staff the jail, and thus dues income will be decreased along wiht their political influence.
The unfortunate thing is Anderson was not man enough to propose this while he occupied the position so he could avoid risking opposition from the deputies’ union. A very calculated move on his part for his own benefit and to the detriment of the tax-paying citizen.
More Government! More civil service employees with a retirement calculation of 3% at age 50! More unions and their blood sucking dues!
That said, actually Anderson has proposed a good idea. To expand it further, there should be more! The Office of the Sheriff (law enforcement), the Office of County Coroner (with sworn officers separate from the Sheriff), and (gasp!) Office of Corrections (the jails).
Why have a sheriff that has too much power and influence? Also, the supervisors could lower the salary of the sheriff to equal that of the Coroner and Corrections offices.
“One thing we learned from the Hunt trial is you don’t criticize your boss,” Anderson said this afternoon. “
That quote is all one needs to read to know how Anderson got his Captain’s bars! Personallly to your face he can be a very nice guy but over the years fellow Deputies learned never to tell him anything because he would never stick up for subordinates no matter how right they were as in the case of Bill Hunt for but one example.
Anderson loved being a lap dog for Carona - who in his mind (Anderson’s) could do no wrong. Why do you think Carona appointed him over other more senior, more qualified Captains, to be interim-Sheriff?
Anderson loved being a lap dog for Hutchens and her LA mentality she brought with her to OC. He even showed up at a GOP Resolutions Committee meeting to argue in favor of all her actions regarding CCW’s and the way she mishandled citizens at the BOS meetings. Then, on her behalf he stood up before the entire GOP Central Committee who was considering passing a resolution condemning her CCW policy and had a meltdown ranting at the Committee calling them all basically a bunch of idiots if they passed the resolution - the resolution passed almost unanimously and the red-faced Anderson threw himself under the bus that day.
Anderson should have no illusions about running for Sheriff. He would come in a far, distant third in the race of three. He has never had to work for anything at this point in his “political career” and he has no idea what it would take to run for office. Besides, he sealed his fate with the GOP; the Deputies can’t stand him and would never support him; he has no money or name ID; and, he would get chewed to bits by Hutchens and Hunt in any public debate. The man doesn’t know how to lead, only follow what he’s told to do.
Lets look at it this way. Take away the sworn deputies and replace with civilians. Hummm…..no integrity, ethics, leadership, responsibility. How much money do you think the county will have to pay out for lawsuits? Civilians as you say come a dime a dozen…..they don’t care and then add with it minimum wage civilians…..would you want your untrained son or daughter to supervise murderers, rapists, and disease ridden inmates. No one will take that job. For all you big talkers why don’t you ask for a jail tour…maybe theo lacy. I think then you might just change you mind about staffing the jails with civilians. Go ahead sign your kid, brother, sister, father up for that job.
How much money has the county paid out in lawsuit awards in 2009 alone? Just ONE jail lawsuit cost us $4 MILLION dollars!!! Overall, we must be in the $8-10 MILLION dollar range! That’s what we get for all that superb training and $200k comp packages for the babysitters at OC jail??? We could do MUCH better with civilians who wouldn’t conduct a work slow down at contract negotiation time and clog up our courts!!!
We can only hope for the department and OC Anderson runs for office!
Return the now Los Angeles Sheriff’s Office of Orange County back to Orange County! No more LA South! Hutchens needs to be booted. He antics at the BOS Chambers alone should have been cause to remove her!
Is it June 2010 yet?
Anderson please run!!!
Yah OC, lets go back to old OCSD ways. That dept was had corrpution all the way around. Don’t be upset, you are quick to judge the LA guys, but the reality is OCSD is LA junior.
Hunt and Anderson should go to LA and learn how to be a real cop. Then they might have some creditbility. His little pint size command in San Clemente wooo!!!! real tough is equivalent to a police cadet in LA.
Hey “Lets have a carona says” the marijuana was the other kids. Who cares, if it wasn’t Haidl’s then why the worry up the chain. The kid had it, but it was actually Haidls’. Straight from the dep who was there.
Get your facts straight..
HOh and OCSd stand by~!!!!!!!! as soon as Ladera ranch becomes it own city, bye bye ocsd. They will create their own dept. Get rid of the lame duck 50 year old trainees out there.
So the ECSD Union Members are against Jack? Thanks for the tip guys and gals. Now I know who I should voter for if he runs because it sure isn’t going to be Hutchens.
“One thing we learned from the Hunt trial is you don’t criticize your boss,”
That’s right Jack and kissing up to them worked well for ya didn’t it? If you are going to get flamed at least take it because you man-up to the task.
Regarding the recent comment about Bill Hunt. from “Mike” …He is the only one of the three has total all-around command experience withing the OCSD! The man volunteered for and worked all the most dangerous details: Narcotics, Undercover, SWAT, etc. He also served in the Jails, at the Academy and was loved by the City of SJC -so much so they passed a resolution in support of him for the appointment to Sheriff.
Hutchens started out as a secreatary for crying out loud. The girl never truly wanted to do cop stuff - just wear the uniform and being around men in uniform. Both Hutchens and Anderson came up through the ranks administratively. Just ask around either Dept. and Deputies will verify that’s true.
So, while Anderson was carrying water for Carona, responding to his every bidding and Hutchens was nowhere to be found during the whole Carona term until she saw away she could sneak in the back door again as an opportunist, Hunt was standing tall and was proven right all along.
Most recently you have both Hutchens with Anderson at her heels like a little chihuahua, confiscating CCW’s of law abiding citizens and acting like thugs at BOS meetings trying to intimidate people to prevent them from exercising 1st Amendment rights, and “Mike” wants Hunt to go to LA to “learn how to be a real cop?”
Well, we’ve got news for both “Mike” and Hutchens, this ain’t LA and we don’t treat our citizens like that down here. Enjoy your ride while you can; it’s coming to a fast halt in about 7 months.
I’ve seen alot of leaders in my life. In the military and in the work environment. Hutchens is not a leader. She doesn’t look like one. She doesn’t talk like one. She doesn’t act like one. I understand she pulls down over $400k a year if you add up her pension and her current salary. One of the most overpaid individuals I have ever laid eyes on. Unbelievable. So absurd it’s humorous.
Incumbents have a big advantage in elections. But if the folks of OC elect Hutchens for another term it will go down in history as one of the biggest mistakes they could make. Nearly as big as the Carona blunder.
/No ocobserver the worse the citizens of orange county could do would be to elect that backstabber,suckup sellout lsoer Jack Anderson Sheriff. The on ly reason he is proposing the civilian run jail is becasue he is Friends with Buck John, who both are in the lincoln club, who happens to operate private run jails in Calif. Gee if Jack could get orange county into the private sector maybe Buck Johns would finance his run for Sheriff.
sta18: no one is talking about privatizing the OC jails. They are talking about kicking out the overpaid deputies and replacing them with lower paid correctional officers. Many jurisdictions throughout the country use this set up and it works. Those jails are not out of control. There are no ongoing huge lawsuits. Costs are contained. They are just as professional and highly trained in jail operations, which is what the arguement is about at this point. Recruit deputies learn patrol tactics and weapons handling in the academy, not how to run a jail. That they learn on the fly which is why bad habits are so easily passed on from generations of jail deputies to the newbies. It is also why Sgt’s. have such a hard time supervising their subordinates inside. They are trained on filed supervision, not insdie the walls stuff. For the most part, Sgt’s come from patrol, not inside. The learning curve is huge, and the line deputies take advantage of that. Add that they are represented by the same union and it is very much a no-win from the start.
Change jail operations by taking them from the sheriff and putting them under an appointed executive manager. Hire corrrectional officers and put them through an academy that is 100% focused on running jail operations. Hire and train supervisors and administrators to do the same thing. Results will be lower costs, less conflict, less lawsuits (it is the norm where the model is currently used), and a more professionally run jail operations overall.
I don’t expect anyone vested in the current system to give in on this. After all, we are talking close to $150 K in salary, benefits and overtime for most jail deputies. All without ever having to draw a gun unlike their patrol counterparts.
Mr Smith, though we often disagree, I grant you have some valid points about the initial training received by the current and past deputies. Yes, the 6 month academy is focused heavily on enforcement and stresses street smarts and how to handle problems in the field. A significant factor is the motivation, the build-up for fighting crime, protecting the public, and fighting the good fight. Then, at graduation, the officers from the other agencies go to the field and apply what they learned and the deputies go on to a two-week “jail academy” for a quick intro to jail operations. Then they spend 6-8 years forgetting what they learned during the 6 months. The supervisors’ greatest, constant challenge is motivating them to do the job they weren’t recruited, selected or trained for.
Knowing they are going inside instead of the field must drive every recruit crazy. Especially when they work so hard not to wash out of the academy. It must kill them to see the city recruits go right to patrol. Same for those promoted to Sgt. Just when you get patrol down cold, you go back inside with no training other than 2 weeks of supervisor class that covers…. car stops, arrests, etc.
Give all that, is it any wonder that deputies and those who are supposed to guide them are totally bummed out. Hate to say it, but who do you suppose they take that out on?
All this leads to a strong call for professional jailers who focus on running a detention/correctional facility. Call them deputies, CSA’s, correctional officers, whatever, but change the focus from training them for the street (whcih won’t happen for 8 years) to running a top notch jail facility. Same for Sgts. and everyone else in the administrative chain. If nothing else, morale should improve and maybe a few bucks will be saved along the way.
Long winded to get to this one point: more of the same is not going to work. Given a $70 million hole coming in 8 months, now is as good a time to try something different. Feild trip to another county/state that uses correctional specialists and not sworn deputies would be a good start.
ocobserver - Do you personally know Sheriff Hutchens? No. Do you “observe” Hutchens every day at her job? No. Do you even have an idea of what her workload is everyday - No. Did you ever know her or “observe” her doing the job she did in LA? No. Do you know any of her ex-partners in LA? No. Do you know what her superiors and peers in LA thought of her as a leader and a partner? No. Do you know how the people who report to her now feel about her as a leader? Probably only from reading the blogs on the OCR. So basically what you know of her is what you read in the OCR. You seem to think you know everything about how the OCSD should be lead. Have you ever lead a workforce of thousands of people every day? Tell me, oh so wise one, explain to me how does a leader act, look and talk according to the ocobserver?
Boots - leaders do what they say they’re going to do. I watched Hutchens spout that ‘change agent’ malarkey when she stood before the BoS and interviewed for the job. I gave her a full 6 months once she hired on and did not make one critical comment. I just watched. Since that time I’ve seen her allow cops use a high powered camera to spy on the personal paperwork of elected supervisors, I’ve seen her assistant sheriff ridicule law abiding public speakers at the BoS meeting on his county owned blackberry, I’ve seen her goon squad harrass law abiding BoS meeting visitors because they were wearing tags supporting more reasonable gun permit regs at the county level, I’ve seen her give the former harbormaster a humungous pass after driving her police vehicle loaded and crashing into a innocent motorist at a stoplight (not even a reduction in rank!) - only a transfer to the jail - whooptie doo! and what happened to the guy who headed the Strenger investigation - the accused pedophile sheriff investigator who was monitoring his own case through the confidential DA’s website - and offed himself when his arrest was imminent - and your purported ‘change agent’ did absolutely nothing. So I don’t even listen to what she has to say anymore. A leader keeps her promises. A leader DOESN’T say things to get into office and then do the exact opposite once she gets her appointment. Sorry, I lost my respect for her. I give everyone a fair shot. She flunked. The fact that she’s pulling down $400k is a real knee slapper.
Wow….one can just feel the anger in that post.
Boot2 sounds like Mr. Hutchens sticking up for his wife…. that, or its her undercover here.
Johnny B - I am in no way related to Sheriff Hutchens, but I am a supporter of her.
Ocobs - A leader makes decisions based on all of the facts - which, again, you do not know. Have you ever been a leader - or just a low life observer - my guess is the latter.
Boot wrote:
“Ocobs - A leader makes decisions based on all of the facts - which, again, you do not know. Have you ever been a leader - or just a low life observer - my guess is the latter”
Oh, I forgot to mention. Leaders are also TRANSPARENT and don’t hide things from the ones they lead when decisions are made.
By your OWN admission, that also disqualifies Hutchen’s as a leader.
Hutchens is simply an overpaid gobblement bureaucrat. No more, no less.