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Gay marriage group calls for 2012 ballot measure
August 12th, 2009, 11:13 am · 91 Comments · posted by Martin Wisckol, Politics reporter
UPDATED with a comment from Ron Prentice, executive director of ProtectMarrriage.com
While a leading group advocating gay marriage today announced a plan to put a measure on the 2012 ballot, another large group’s announcement of a conflicting 2010 election target underlined the ongoing debate among backers of same-gender marriage.
Equality California leaders said that while they initially favored a 2010 initiative, subsequent polling and other research showed that such a measure would have a better chance of passing in 2012.
“There’s no question that the community is not united on when to go forward,” said Marc Solomon, marriage director of Equality California. “But we have a responsibility to present the best information and research we’ve gathered to the LGBT community.”
They say the time will allow more time to make their case to voters,
and will also allow a new generation - who are more receptive to gay marriage - to reach voting age.
Proposition 8, which banned gay marriage, was approved by 52 percent of voters last November.
Another advocacy group - Courage Campaign - announced today that its fundraising for putting the measure on the 2010 ballot is off to a strong start, having raised $135,000. (Equality California has raised $393,000.)
“We challenged our friends in the marriage equality movement to raise an additional $100,000 to place the most effective initiative possible on the 2010 ballot.” wrote Courage Campaign founder Rick Jacobs in a news release today.
Equality California leaders responded that they’re sticking with the 2012 date, but they would support a measure next year if the Courage Campaign succeeds in getting it on the ballot.
“This is our recommendation for the best way to do it,” said Geoff Kors, executive director of Equality California. “(But) we’re committed to working with everyone. If they can raise the money and get it on the ballot, obviously we’ll support it. … If something qualifies for the ballot, large donors will want to see a strategy and a path to victory and if that’s there, they’ll support it.”
Kors is among those who believe that a failed ballot measure in 2010 would make it more difficult to pass the measure in 2012, because it could strengthen opponents.
“We think we have one shot over the next two years,” he said.
The generational difference in acceptance of gay marriage is a key reason to wait, Solomon said. He noted that 60 percent of voters under 30 “solidly support” gay marriage.
Click here to find Equality California’s analysis and plan for a 2012 ballot measure.
Ron Prentice, executive director of ProtectMarriage.com and a leader in the Yes on 8 campaign, issued the following statement in response to the above news:
“Notwithstanding the decision by EQCA to shift focus to a 2012 election, which they readily admit is a crass political decision, they will lose then just as surely as they would in 2010 or any other year. The people have spoken twice on this issue, both times reaffirming traditional marriage. If asked to do so, they will indeed vote again to protect traditional marriage.
“The pro-gay marriage advocates had all the advantages they could ever hope for in 2008, including a misleading ballot title and summary, the sympathetic (and ultimately proven to be false) claim that a vote for Prop 8 would be a vote to “divorce 18,000 couples,” the benefit of asking for a “no” vote, and a very favorable electorate driven by the historic election of Barack Obama as President. They will never have these advantages again. But for all they had going for them in 2008, they failed, because the people are not with them. In fact, most public polling shows that support for homosexual marriage has peaked and retreated significantly from its high water mark.
“ProtectMarriage.com is nonetheless not resting on our victory from 2008, but working aggressively to educate the public and to help the public continue to understand the very vital role that marriage plays in our civil society. While the other side issues many press releases about their activity, we are quietly but effectively building on our majority in California.”
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DENA BUNIS, Washington bureau chief, 202-628-6381 or dbunis@ocregister.com
BRIAN JOSEPH, Sacramento correspondent, 916-449-6046 or bjoseph@ocregister.com
JENNIFER MUIR, County government reporter, 714-796-7813 or jmuir@ocregister.com
JOEL WALSH, Washington bureau intern, 202-628-6381 or jwalsh@ocregister.com
MARTIN WISCKOL, Politics reporter, 714-285-2867 or mwisckol@ocregister.com twitter.com/MartinWisckol
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by 2045 the US will be 85% Muslim, and gay marriage will again be illegal.
Yea bring it back on again,so we can kick you against the crub once more you perverts..keep what sicknes you do in the dark and at home dont force us normal people to beleive your sane.your not your perverted and got a ticket to the pit when you die..
LOL your vile viscious language highlights what a sad, miserable life you must lead. What happened in your childhood that has caused you so much bitterness? Did you get beaten up on the playground constantly? Or perahps did your spouse just leave you for someone who is actually pleasant? Thankfully people like you are dying off…
LOL! Damn Drew well said man!
Amen to that,Drew.That’s telling him!
Whoa! You are some kind of twisted. If you are “normal,” as you described, give me abnormal any day!
and wait until YOUR child tells you he/she is gay — are you going to disown your child (they’ve been gay since birth/childhood but wait to tell you when they are self supporting) PS I just found out my child was also gay - had my suspicions but it is reality now
Yes on 8!
well if you really trust in God, than you should certainly trust that the men & women who are Gay were created by him just like the rest of us. But, of course, you don’t trust in God. People like you trust only in your sick, hateful, point of view. Thank God those of us who do trust in God can tell the difference. NO ON 8!!
Just because people dissagree Steve doesn’t make them sick and hateful. This is what’s wrong with people like you. Don’t talk about God, you are not his spokesperson. Just remember, it was Adam and Eve not Adam and Evan.
Calfornia is never going to go for gay marriage. The younger people are leaving the state, not staying which means the demographics are older white population, large minority population. This is bad news for equality in California. California will step into the 21st century about the same time as Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama i.e. never. JPMULEY is a perfect representation of California. GO EAST and escape these uneducated crazies.
Gay people are uneducated?
reading comprehension….
My son is very educated and just “came out” to his family — he has told all of his friends who are also very educated and he said they really have NO problem with it — I think gay marriage IS going to happen so might as well get used to it.! In Holland, they’ve allowed it since 2000 and New Zealand for about 3 years now — it’s on it’s way and those countries are used to it!
Small minds with small thoughts create the biggest problems….
Just in time for the end of the world! Cool!
In their fight against Prop 8 the gay community really alienated the straight community. That was not a smart move, since they will need the straight community to kick through any future ballot measure. I saw the gays protesting business owners and trying to put them out of business if the entrepreneur gave a hundred bucks in support of Prop 8. That’s way over the line. People do not like extremeism. I suggest that the gays mellow out if they want a chance at winning future ballot measures.
The supporters of Prop 8 originally sent out a memo to all San Diego businesses that were against the proposition to make a donation to the Yes on 8 campaign matching their original donation or their businesses will be boycotted. Boycotting a business is acceptable. Blackmail isn’t.
What part of “the majority rules” do california gays not understand? The people of the state have spoken. If you weirdos want to get married, go somewhere else and do it!
So according to some of the posts above, bigotry, hatred, ignorance, and the elitist mentality are alive and well in CA. The majority spoke but only by 2%. They will soon be in the minority and the roles reversed and the whining will be louder then before.
Live and let live if it doesn’t affect you. Seems the loudest opponents are the back woods gomers wearing the machismo on their sleeves or the ultra holier then thou religious fanatics. Both groups would sooner kill their own off spring then to accept them being gay.
Step into the next century. The water is fine.
OK!!! Here`s the deal. I f you want to put a large dent in this so concerning gay movement first you have to close the church doors so no more priests, ministers and bible thumpers will stop molesting all the choir boys. Then you have to convince the industry to stop makeing movies of women on women, but don`t tell your husband cause this will annoy him. Then completely halt the womens rights movement, convince the football league to screen all it`s players before sighning any contracts. Then after that ask forgivness for your narrow minded , self centered thinking to your lord for judgeing.After all that , go back to your closet and do your best to hide all those nasty little secrets you want nobody to find out about.And then maybe, just maybe you won`t go to this make believe place you call hell.
YOU LOST! GET OVER IT!!! TAKE YOUR PERVERTED SELVES ELSEWHERE. ITS A CHOICE YOU MADE. YOU WERE NOT BORN THAT WAY. GOD IS AGAINST IT SO WHY WOULD HE MAKE YOU THAT WAY???????? THINK ABOUT IT. ITS PRETTY SIMPLE. I DONT BUY IT FOR A SECOND..
It’s not a choice. Where are you basing this information from? Obviously not from the many medical journals, including studies done at CSU Fullerton. Please educate yourself so you don’t spew information based on ignorance.
YES IT IS a CHOICE. God made Adam & Eve…Man & Woman when he created mankind. How about you RESEARCH this FACT in the first few chapters of the book of Genesis and read it for yourself; and lets see if the research from “many medical journals, including studies done at CSUF” really adds up! So go ahead…EDUCATE YOURSELF! hahahahahahhaha. Better yet, ask God to open the eyes of your heart so He can “educate” you.
Bless you.
MJ—-You are ignorant and want to remain that way,evidently.Stay close to your imaginary playmate and pretend that you can be protected from all that you fesr and don’t understand.
Mensarino, I have an issue with the changing of the definition of marriage. If people want to be together because they are gay so be it. It is called a Civil Union. What is wrong with keeping it that way? I realize changing the definition is for insurance purposes so the fight should be for changing the policies of insurance companies.
Which medical journals? Sure there was a big push to try to find a genetic or biological basis to explain homosexuality but not to long ago they concluded they couldn’t determine that. But all those studies trying to show that when they started sure got a lot of publicity.
AMEN!!!
And these people cry about “equality”??!! A lot of these ‘lost souls’ confuse equality with their choice to live some sick alternative lifestyle, and then try to impose it on other people.
God made Adam & Eve…NOT ADAM & STEVE for a reason!!!
God have mercy on this immoral, unrighteous, and decayed American society of ours.
the bible is where you get your “facts”?
i’m sure that is working out well for you.
but, let’s run with that scenario:
so…. god created everything… including gay people.
god created adam and steve.
boycott god?
and prop 8 fans talked about protecting families, right?
where exactly do gay people come from?
they aren’t part of families?
religion shouldn’t be a buffet that you pick and choose what parts you believe.
the arguments never make any sense, but at least the fanatics aren’t hypocrits.
This should hit the ballots just in time for the reactive swing to the right, after Obama’s failed policies galvanize the nation into action.
I may have to join the Mormon church to help fund the effort to maintain the status quo.
Hey, Mormons weren’t the only ones who supported prop 8. Many Evangelical Christians, Catholics and people from other faiths or no faith also supported prop 8.
I love the muslim comment. All the liberals will continue allowing unchecked Muslims into the country and when they have enough they will institute their so called Shira laws and reduce the homo population!
As the old saying goes, be careful what you ask for, you just may get it!
First, i`m not gay ,i`ve been married 31 years and my wife and i both support gay marrage. You see we`re not threatened by anothers choice. Maybe you should look deep in yourself and you just might find your homophobic because you have the same tendencies. LOL And please yeson8, keep typing , i find you so amuseing !!! LOL !!!!
Well said Daryl!
Put it on the ballet, let the people vote. When it goes down flames, pack your bags and move to someplace where that lifestyle is acceptable.
If it passes, I’ll pack my bags and you can have the place. I wouldn’t want to be here when God smites it.
hahahahhahaha. Seriously, that’s what’s up right there.
Exactly JIM, some could find out their children all gay! LOL
Just because someone doesn’t like or agree
Doesn’t make them a HOMOPHOBIC… or AFRAID… WHAT..
IT’S… there Right and CHOICE..
It’s just your excuse or reason to believe that… OLD EXCUSE…
LOL They’re gay!
Ignorance is the most dangerous thing on earth!!!!!
I honestly think gays will have a better chance of winning this in 2010. You have to remember that over 80% or more of black voters were against gay marriage in the last election and that substantially more black voters showed up to vote becuase Obama was running. Well in 2010 I believe the number of those voters wil decrease back to normal sadly because Obama isn’t running. Waiting until 2012 the number of black voters will be increased because Obama will most likely run for a second term thus lessening the chance of it passing again.
This is good news. What you discrminating idiots don’t understand is that all of the punk kids that were only 15, 16 and 17 years old during the past election couldn’t vote then. Guess who is going to make sure they are all registered…….The old people are dying off along with their old, discriminating way of thinking. 2012, here we come. It barely passed by 52%. Flip a coin…
And in the meantime, since we don’t get the same rights, we shouldn’t have to pay the same taxes. Let’s throw that burden on all of these discriminating, uneducated folks who are in favor of taking away civil rights.
wow. no group has ever given up their fight for equality in this country. you wish we would give up, because you know you can’t win this fight forever. marriage equality is what the younger generations want, and that’s what we’re going to have. even if we have to wait for the baby bommer generation to pass, gay marriage will be legal across the us one day. and to ocobserver, what planet are you from? gays alienated straights? is that a joke? gays have been alienated for years, first of all. second, i went and rallied against prop8. in one night, in 2 hours, i was mooned 3 times, had underwear thrown at me, and was screamed and cursed at and called every derogatory term that refers to homosexuals (and by the way the majority of these people looked to be 50+) oh but that must be acceptable, because we’re just f@gs after all. i’m sure if jesus was here today, he’d be right there encouraging that behavior. right.
love thy neighbor.
First off you are repeating the old homosexual misuse of terminology. Maybe you should get a dictionary. This is not about equality but rather homosexuals want to change the definition of marriage. Homosexuals have equal rights just like anyone else to marry someone of the opposite sex!
Do you think anyone who wants to at all should be able to marry? Such as polygamists to marry more than one woman? Or how about marrying underage individuals?
Homosexuals like to protest that its about equality but in reality the state has defined who can marry as one man with one woman, both of a certain age at least.
The same arguments homosexuals and their supporters are using can be applied to others and in fact in Canada there was a case of a polygamist trying to make the very same argument to be allowed to marry more than one woman.
There are others who want to marry young boys or girls, but the state says no. All of those things are defined by the state. And there are much stronger precedents for allowing polygamy or underage marriage than for allowing same sex marriage.
Procreate! Yes on 8!
Someone took a poetry class this summer!
Gay activists are terrorists. If you don’t agree with them, look out!
NO means NO.
It’s kind of like Christmas, you don’t always get what you want.
I have no reason to fear gay activists, but crazies like you I find very frightening.
No on 8 ! Let`s start to educate! lol
I was Straight bashed in Long Beach on 2nd st. for rejecting a gay boy hitting on me, then his big buff homo friend came over and pushed me against a wall and told like 6 other gay dudes that I was a homophobe and he threw me in the street. It was actually a pretty scary situation and that drew the line for me. I mean I used to tolerate them, but now I think that they need to be the ones who tolerate other peoples opinions of them and stop pushing their agenda and opinions on others! If you want to be fudge packers then so be it, but DO NOT make others accept you and your perverted ways!
Again this agenda….where can I get a copy of it???
Sounda like a hate crime to me based on sexual orientation. You should have called the cops and pressed charges for assault.
Equal Rights for All. No more need be said.
It’s sad and sickening how lost and blind satan has made a lot of you folks.
“Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the TRUTH OF GOD for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator - who is forever praised. Amen.
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations (with men) for unnatural ones (with women). In the same way the men also abadoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion”.
—-Romans 1:24-27
Well there you have it. A completely religious justification for the enforcement of civil discrimination. You are, of course, entitled to your religious point of view. And the chrurch you attend can indeed be as discriminatory as it wishes. I support your right in this regard.
However, marriage is a civil and secular cultural institution (in addition to being a religious one). So, an atheist like me can get married. And I am going to get married next year to my atheist bisexual girlfriend. Since I’m as condemned to the flames of eternal damnation as much as the homosexuals, I feel they may as well get all the love and happiness they can get in this life while they can.
“Therefore God gave them …”. “them” refers to whom, exactly. The context is missing.
In this case, “them” refers to ex-Christians who have taken up pagan rituals. And of course Paul didn’t write in English. The Greek word here translated as “lusts” (or “affections” in the KJV) would more accurately be translated as “frenzied state”. And “unnatural” more accurately translated as “unconventional” (cf 1 Corinthians 11:14 or Romans 11:24). And “the due penalty for their perversion” (”recompence of their error” in the KJV) — could that refer to the STDs common in the pagan cults of that time?
So what do we have: a bunch of former Christians who participated in pagan ritual orgies, got themselves into a frenzied state, and then “abandoned natural relations” (so they were presumably straight) and had unconventional sex when God intervened.
Somehow, for MJ, it’s a blanket condemnation of gay people. Is MJ reading from the bible, or into it?
Of course the same question applies to those responsible for the more “modern” translations, such as the one MJ quotes. Take 1 Samuel 20:41 for example. The KJV has “and they kissed one another”, while the Living Bible says “they sadly shook hands” — dishonest, isn’t it. Wouldn’t want anyone thinking David and Jonathan were a same-sex couple. The KJV at least used italics when they made stuff up (cf “the one of” in 1 Samuel 18:21).
So many like to quote “the Bible”. What they really refer to is their favored translation of the bible, typically one that says what they want it to say. How many Christians ever read the original text, or appreciate the translation bias in what they do read?
AF seems to be making up his own new interpretation of Romans. The context is right before the passage and no, it does not refer to former Christians, but rather to those who willfully ignore the fact as expressed in other portions of scripture as well that they evidence for God’s existence and character are all around us (see v 20 in the passage that says that For since the creation of the world, God’s invisible qualities–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.”
Not sure where you are getting your definitions of words either. The word translated in the KJV as lusts or in the NIV as desires is epithumia in Greek. and frenzied state is not one of its meanings. They are listed as “a longing (especially for what is forbidden) concupiscense, desire, lust (after) (Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance) don’t happen to have my Greek lexicon handy but it would say basically the same thing. These are the meanings in the koine Greek in which the New Testament was written.
So your twisted interpretations don’t fly. It was those to whom the truth of God’s existence and character had been made obvious all around but who had willfully ignored that, so God gave them over to all sorts of lusts including homosexual lusts.
That whole passage there in Romans is very true of modern society that worships and serves created things rather than the One who created them.
Take a look around you at the marvels of creation all around–the workings of the human body or a part such as the eye. Or how about the way the universe is set up? If things were just slightly different about the angle of the earth, the distance from the sun and all sorts of other measurements we would not have an earth that is hospitable to human or other life as we know it. Most of us are not even aware of these things but science has been discovering the things i mentioned and many other areas where things are just the way they need to be for life as we know it, but if it were slightly different we would not have life as we know it. Why?
anotherthought says:
August 12, 2009 at 12:58 “pmIt’s not a choice. Where are you basing this information from? Obviously not from the many medical journals, including studies done at CSU Fullerton. Please educate yourself so you don’t spew information based on ignorance.”
well there are plenty of medical journals as well that say the complete opposite and studies done at many other Universities that out rank “CSU FULLERTON” hahaha what a joke. Why dont you educate your self as well and you will find there are very good arguments from medical experts who will agree and disagree, but sorry to tell you but the fact is that being gay is a “choice” out ways the argument that you are “born” that way sorry…..now go do your research that you probably have never done, but heard about through here say!
I saw homosexual tendancies in my son at 3 years old and guess what, he is 21 and just came out and told me he was gay! He didn’t make a choice!
To Nice:
The last time I checked, 52% constitutes as majority, as does 51%, as does 50.5%, etc. etc. A majority is a majority. As for the anti-gay marriage majority soon turning into the minority, that’s strictly your opinion. I’ll have to see it to believe it.
The people of California BY A MAJORITY of the vote said NO! to gay marriage in this state. The courts have supported that decision. My advice is for you go to some state where gay marriage is recognized, get hitched to your same-sex buddy and stop your god-awful whining about something that has been settled at the ballot box!
anotherthought—-my friend the gay community are the ones who need to show every one else the proof that they are born that way, once you have that then you will be fine.
Also on another note…if it is so normal and gays are born that way then they have to agree that it is normal as well for them NOT to have any kids because we all know that two penises can not make a babie and that two vaginas can not make a baby, soooooo we all have to agree that if being gay is normal there are NO kids involved, so now why are we letting them adopt?????????? And how does the gay community justify this?
Amen to that! homosexuality clearly repudiates - DISQUALIFIES itself as being ‘normal’ or someone being born “gay” - because 2 men or 2 women CANNOT PROCREATE new offspring!
People are REALLY - and sadly - misled by lies satan has been telling mankind since the beginning of time.
You can also study medical risk for diseases. Anal sex is a risk factor for the kind of cancer that Farah Faucett died from (not saying that is how she got it) but if you go to a medical website, it is one of the major risk factors for that and other diseases which would indicate that it isn’t healthy for people.
Have to say this — What are you going to think/say when YOUR child tells you he/she is gay? Would you disown your child? As a parent, you DO see the writing on the wall from a very young age! (I just found out my child was gay)
any way I am almost out of work, and I dont feel like listening to homos try and push their life style on me anymore…the majority of us will agree with that as well. I think I might put my proud to be straight flag up today to piss all the homos off, but yet they can fly their rainbow flag and have parades about them being gay and no one can say anything about that or else RIGHT gays????
saying being gay is a choice is an admission that YOU think YOU had a choice and YOU chose to be straight.
that is an admission that YOU were attracted to the same sex, but chose to be straight.
that is called being in the closet.
there is no choice, i have never talked to anyone that said they had a choice of what sex they were attracted to.
you have no control over it.
you do have control over acting on your attractions.
if you choose not to act on your natural attraction, that is a choice, but you are still attracted to what you are attracted to regardless of that choice.
homophobes see openly gay people living the lives they are too scared to live because of their biggotted families and religion.
their jealousy manifests itself in hate.
why else would anyone care?
and, the bible thing is hilarious.
do you eat shellfish?
that, like homosexuality, is an abomination in gods eyes!
so are plenty of other stupid things.
millions spent on keeping gay people from getting married that could be spent helping homeless, poor, and underprivedged people.
not very christian or christlike.
very judgemental… the bible talks about that more than homosexuality.
sad, pathetic, and ignorant.
what year is it?
I will agree that there may be some who are attracted more to the same sex, but they have a choice whether to engage in that or not. Apparently some people have more of an attraction to alcohol than others and more of a tendency toward addiction, but do we say, oh, well he’s attracted to alcohol, he can’t help it, just let him be a drunk?
We all have weaknesses and probably attractions that are unhealthy. Some have more of a tendency to overeat than others. But with most of those things we realize that while it may be harder for some than others to avoid those unhealthy urges, we don’t normally just say, oh well, you were born that way so just give in to all your desires however harmful they may be.
Apparently some men are attracted to children. We sure don’t say that is ok.
All of those are cases where people have attractions or desires that may be natural but that we would strongly urge them to not act on. Even heterosexual sex outside of the boundaries of marriage is destructive.
God set up certain boundaries because as Creator He knows what is good for us and what is not.
No matter which side of the fence you fall on, no one could believe that being gay is a choice. It may be biological or it may be caused by upbringing…regardless…No one would choose to be gay if they had a reasonable alternative.
The dude—Now,that was what I call a real intelligent post from a man who is obviously a beacon of brilliance and a product of an Ivy league institution.
If the gay thing passes in 2012 can the heterosexual conservative Christian whites, blacks, mexicans, asians, and Mormons become hysterical, whine, protest, threaten, intimidate, demand boycotts, and put another gay marriage on the ballot in 2014? Or will that be the end of it gay guys and gals?
guess what?
christian churches don’t recognize muslim marriages.
muslims don’t recognize christian marriages.
neither recognizes satanic or athiest marriages.
the government recognizes all of them, because ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL.
gay people are not forcing their lifestyle on anyone.
christians are forcing their religion, and narrow view of marriage, on people.
they would take away the right to get married from any other religion or group that is not them if they could.
their marriages started with women as possessions, where’s the protests for that?
your “christian” definition of marriage is not anyone elses.
you don’t have to support gay marriage, you don’t have to like it, but if you want your superstitions to be tolerated, you have to tolerate others.
that is how it works.
your freedom to do what you want is a purchase that you make with your tolerance.
no tolerance, no freedom.
Well put!
Skippy that does not answer my question. May we whine, protest, threaten, intimidate, boycott, and become hysterical if this gay thing passes? That’s all I want to know.
Patriot—-Of course you can.I,for one, would love to see such a thing.It would be hysterical.
Well put…
Unfortunately
(as we’ve seen since these Farces of “9-11 WARS” have begun…)
We already have No Tolerance and No Freedom in the US…
(Posts like these by me might well prove THAT for myself!)
It’s just that many haven’t awoken and smelled the coffee to that fact yet.
Slavery can take the effect of economic freedom too…
The less your dollar buys the more you have to work to keep the same,
Also Applies to paying the Tax man for War, Etc.
Marriage is one Freedom a part of California’s Society Lost with Prop 8…
But many more Freedoms have been lost by ALL,
JUST because people being too stupid to watch the BIGGER PICTURE of those who live to exploit one issue things like Gay Marriages..
That is not accurate at all. I don’t know about Muslims recognizing Christian marriages but I have never heard of a Christian church not recognizing a Muslim marriage. Any church that I have ever been around has recognized legal marriages. I have never heard any church asking a couple where they were married and if it was not in a Christian church not recognizing it. Possibly the Roman Catholics are that way, but not others.
It is not just a Christian view of marriage. It is the historical view of marriage as one man one woman. Sure polygamy has been practiced although the Bible indicates that was never God’s plan.
Your statements are ludicrous and totally untrue. Like I said, it is not just a Christian definition of marriage and I have never heard of interfering with the marriages of those of other religions. Most of them agree on one man one woman.
And it was not just Christians who supported prop 8. There were people commenting on the OCR who indicated that they were agnostics or atheists or other non-Christians who supported prop 8. Muslims and conservative or orthodox Jews also supported it. As of course did the Mormons.
I don’t really care about gay marriage or not. Or if it comes in 2010 or 2012. What I do care about are the outside of California funds that support both sides. I would like to see it be illegal to contribute or participate in issues that your are not a registed voter. In the case of gay marriage the LDS church via members sent tons of money against gay marriage. But that also means that any group could send money for or against a proposition. And I don’t think any group outside of CA should be able to be involved if they are not a California citizen or registered voter.
You have a point there, but it was not just LDS supporting prop 8. There was also a lot of no on 8 money that came in from outside CA. It just didn’t come from such a big organization maybe and so flew under the radar.
It makes sense to me in general for only those in the jurisdiction that is voting on an issue being able to donate for it. Of course there may be reasonable arguments for letting some outside a jurisdiction donate, but it does seem sensible for those able to vote to be the ones to contribute.
So if we’re going to be able to vote on this again will we also be able to vote on whether or not a minor can have an abortion without parental consent? Heck, let’s just continue to put these issues on the ballot until the other side wins. . .and then let’s put them back because no one knows how to gracefully accept defeat.
Personally, I’d be happy if the government got completely out of the marriage business and only offered civil unions. Leave “marriage” ceremonies to the religious organizations and shut everyone the heck up about the civil rights of gay marriage.
In China they have a Government that took away Civil Rights from its People….
Are You Saying Our Government and People - Right or Wrong - by the simplest (more like Simple-ton-est) of Majority has the right to do so too?
Today Gays,
Tomorrow Zero Population Laws,
incarcerating and making Slave Workers
and Death to ALL Immigrants???
MrsHashBrown, You paint a bleak outlook for America’s future!
If Just because GAYS, LIKE I,
don’t knows how to gracefully accept defeat
of my CIVIL RIGHTS…
But heck, if we all could accept “it” (the losses) gracefully
OUR president would probably STILL be a SLAVE today!
(See Dred Scott Supreme Court Decision for more to Debate.)
Chris,
Our President is an actual African-American, not just an American with African ancestry. His Father was from Africa, his Mother was from America. He is not a decendent of an American slave. Based on this simple point alone, I don’t know that I should bother with responding to the rest of your post, but here it goes:
Back to the topic, I don’t really care if anything regarding gay marriage continues to show up on the ballot. I also don’t really care if abortion for minors without parental consent continues to show up on the ballot. I guess I just have voter’s malaise because I can’t really drum up any enthusiasm for either issue. I think they are two very heated issues and there are people on both sides who make the entire group look like jerks. Civil Rights, Parental Rights, both are extremely (one might even say, equally) important and I would say that both have been hindered by the voting populace. But at this point, I can’t say that I give a cr@p about either issue because I’m sick of hearing about both.
That said, since everyone is so pissy about the word “marriage”, let’s just stop issuing “Marriage Licenses” and only issue “Civil Union Certificates” and shut everyone the heck up. Let the religious houses deal with the religious ceremony of marriage and let the goverment deal with the legal contract ceremony of civil unions. This would make everyone happy, yes?
And how you somehow brought China into all this, I have no idea. . .
and you mensarino I bet are an Ivy League grad right…you fool, stop pushing your gay marriage crap on me!
the dude—I must have hit a nerve.How far did you get……9th grade?
Mensarino you are coming across as an elitist with your talk of Ivy league grad. Most of us didn’t graduate from Ivy League schools. So what? I know of someone who didn’t even have an opportunity to go to high school but I would have never guessed it. She has obviously educated herself.
GAY MARRIAGE….
GAY . . .
MARRIAGE!
What craziness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hey you little sissies…. It’s OVER.. O.V.E.R.
Quit whining like little pany boyz and get a life.
if you want to get married MOVE TO VERMONT
Homophobic crazies like you give CA a bad NAME!
To show how retarded your answer is…
It’s FAR from OVER
(Just as the Dred Scott Decission didn’t stop the EVENTUAL end of Slavery)
And BTW this sissy MALE is LEGALLY MARRIED in THIS STATE!
And to a GAY MALE SISSY, not some pretend female thing girlfriend.
If California had had equal Rights for Gays and Marriage Long ago,
Poor old Micheal Jackson probably wouldn’t had done all the Boys and Drugs to coward away from his PUBLIC imaginary shame of his being gay.
But that’s just my speculation,
’cause we all knew he was gay back at the Disco bars in the mid 70s.
And double to that of Liberace and Rock Hudson (frequent visitor to Studio 1)too.
Oh, no! I think I’ve been trolled. . .
You aren’t seriously suggesting that gays are pedophiles when they are closeted, are you?
I’m just going to donate all my donations to Courage Campaign for doing 2010 thing. Then IF they don’t win…
I will continue to donate to them when they join the fight with those cowards from Equality California in 2012.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wan’t it Equality California that lead and created the soft-shoe campaign for gays be quiet, don’t rock the boat and it will all go away losing strategy for the “No on Prop 8″ in 2008???
At Least Courage Campaign listens to it’s members, unlike the Equality California people. But I’ve already stopped working with them for them trying to use the same losing strategy and trying to silence me at their meetings.
NEVER AGAIN! - SPEAK UP - SPEAK OUT - EQUAL RIGHTS NOW.
Again you are reverting to the classical homosexual name calling and changing the meaning of words. It gets very tiring to hear homosexuals and their supporter call anyone who is against homosexual activity a homophobe. Neither I, not most of my friends are afraid of homosexuals. My Dad had a cousin who we discovered was homosexual after his murder. The family attended his funeral in West Hollywood. His homosexual son was there with his partner. We expressed our condolences to him.
And looking back on Dick, while I decry the choices he made as wrong, it does not change my warm feelings for him as a person. We have lost track of his son (and others who may have been cousins of my parents) but I think of him from time to time and hope for the best for him.
Again, calling it equal rights is another example of changing the definition of words. You already have equal rights to marry anyone of the opposite sex. But the DEFINITION of marriage is between one man and one woman. What you are trying to do is to change the definition, not win equal rights. You have equal rights to marriage the way it is defined by the state just like everyone else.
But it seems sadly that for homosexuals their campaign is and has been based on the misuse of words and name calling.