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Judge again throws out suit against deputies over pensions
May 22nd, 2009, 6:54 pm · 126 Comments · posted by NORBERTO SANTANA JR.
A Los Angeles Superior Court judge has once again thrown out the county’s case against Orange County deputy sheriffs seeking to roll back a portion of their pension enhancement, referred to as “three at 50.”
Last month, county officials amended their original complaint against the deputy sheriffs after Judge Helen Bendix threw out the majority of their case. She allowed county officials to restate one claim if they could prove that the annual payments for the retirement benefit were making it impossible to meet bills.
After a series of closed session meetings, supervisors finally amended their argument but ignored Bendix’s instructions and instead restated their argument that the retroactive benefit violated the state constitution’s debt limits because it granted benefits that were not earned.
Apparently, Bendix wasn’t convinced. The question now facing supervisors is whether they continue their effort and appeal her decision to a higher court.
While there is existing case law that treats pensions differently than other types of debt, county officials insist that a pension liability should be seen as a debt. That is indeed the case in the private sector and with a new standard adopted by a nationwide accounting oversight panel.
However, deputy sheriffs have consistently argued that a deal is a deal and that no judge would easily undo a contract without alleged fraud.
After Bendix’s ruling today, Wayne Quint, president of the Association of Orange County Deputy Sheriffs, sent out a press release taking aim at the county.
“After fifteen months and $1.7 million in outside legal counsel fees, the County of Orange has yet to show any progress on this misguided effort,” said Wayne Quint. “With the county’s present fiscal crisis, I am hopeful the County Board of Supervisors will come to their senses and cut their losses. At this point it has to be apparent to them that they have no chance at all of winning this case.”
Yet supervisor John Moorlach, who was influential in launching the lawsuit and the amended complaint, said he’ll be asking his colleagues to stay the course and pursue an appeal through the state’s appellate courts and eventually the Supreme Court if needed.
“If I thought it was frivolous, I would have never started,” Moorlach said in a late afternoon interview. “I believe in this case, so I’ll obviously encourage my colleagues to stay the course.”
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DENA BUNIS, Washington bureau chief, 202-628-6381 or dbunis@ocregister.com
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The reason the BOS didn’t amend their lawsuit, is that they had nothing new to offer, except more tax payer money. It is hard to believe, that these buffoons are in charge of our tax dollars. We have a huge budget crisis in Orange County and at the State level. Stop wasting money on something you can’t win.
Many of the county employee contracts are coming up for renewal. That is the proper forum to discuss the pension issue. A new tier for new employees perhaps?
John…when you give up YOUR taxpayer paid, gold plated, perks and pension? You might have some legitimacy. Until then, you’re a hypocrite.
An obvious example of Moorach’s megalomania… He lives in his own world. It wouldn’t bother me too much if Orange County’s status pro quo wasn’t at stake.
can the county go BK and amend all prior pensions? No matter what state job you have held, you do not deserve the generous deals that you have gotten. It is not feasible in the long run to pay for.
I agree, and have been promoting the same idea.
I hope he continues to after those bloated pensions that never should have been approved in the 1st place. I’m tired of the unions sticking it to the people of CA.
stop wasting our money Moorlach!!!!!!!
“Stay the course” says Moorlach? I think not! Just another opportunity to keep his name in the headlines. More political grandstanding at the taxpayer’s expense. A clear illustration of just how arrogant this moron is.
The County, State and the world for that matter are all in deep financial trouble and this friggin’ idiot is continuing to waste over $1.7 million taxpayer dollars while pink slips are waiting to be distributed to County employees.
Shame on you Moorlach. Pushing forward your ill-fated agenda at the expense of people’s jobs……I hope this isn’t lost on the voters as you try to move on to higher political office. I know it won’t be lost when I cast my ballot!
To paraphrase Mr. Mauk: Don’t the deputies have a right to the pension they worked so hard for. That was pretty much his response when questioned about his own pension perks.
Now, BoS, leave it alone and get on with business.
More of our tax money down the toilet thanks to Moorlach and the rest of the BoS. When will it stop? I am so tired of seeing our money poured down the drain on this lawsuit. ENOUGH!!!
Mr. John Moorlach - At this point, the judge is letting you know that it really doesn’t matter what you think. You have been told you have no legal case…again. Yet, you encourage your “colleagues to stay the course” and pursue an appeal, all of which will cost the county dearly. Mr. Moorlach should be held accountable. This is getting ridiculous to the point that Mr. Moorlach is being frivolous.
I am not in L.E. and often am critical of them but fair is fair.Agreed upon pensions can’t be canceled later.
Those people played by the rules and the deal has to be honored,plain and simple.
And, by the way, I will never,ever vote for Moorlach for any office at any time.He is truly a contemptible little man.
No big deal. The county is on the verge of bankrupt now anyway since the State of California couldn’t beg, borrow or steal to stay solvent. The taxpayers said ‘no’. Obama said ‘no’. No bank has the money to loan California a plug nickle and wouldn’t even if they had the spare cash since Arnold wouldn’t be able to pay it back anyway. Only one final solution…….CUT, CUT, CUT. The big government paychecks and pensions are going bye-bye. So didn’t really matter if this judge slapped down the retroactive pensions or not. It’s all a mute point now. The hatchets are about to fall. All the kings horses and all the kings men won’t be able to put poor Humpty back together again. Sit back and watch the show. It makes for great entertainment.
Moorlach is diggging his own grave deeper and deeper, so are the other BoS if they don’t stand up to this infamous granstanding politician. He will never hold office again. His name is synonymous with failure and not having his constitutients best interests above his own personal change.
John you’re fired!
This thing is as dumb as the recent special election. Proposition 1A et al. What morons thought there was a ’snowball’s chance’ that they would pass ? I haven’t seen the tab for that folly yet. THIS KIND OF STUFF IS COSTING US, THE TAXPAYERS, MONEY ! Knock this crud off and move on….you’re making us all sick….that means you Moorlach in particular.
Mr. Moorlach enough is enough. Stop wasting the county’s money and put it to better use. The Supervisors made a deal and now that have to stick by it.
Moorloch is a tool, give it up sweetheart. You lost, now come out of that closet
Ocobserver—The word you want in your post is “moot”, not”mute.”
cuts are going to happen but only lawful ones– this aint close– lot’s of lawyers, judges, ex judges, experts etc etc etc have told moorlach and his wimpy followers that this is not the way forward, no matter how much he/they hate the cops—–but ego and political ambition prevail while millions of dollars feed lawyers…….these are closing chapters in the political lives of this board unless they are wise enuf to see the obvious…
Let’s take Moorlach’s pension or better yet he can pay us back the money he’s wasted on these cases
– LA judge again throws out county lawsuit against sheriff deputies over pensions –
“Yet supervisor John Moorlach, who was influential in launching the lawsuit and the amended complaint, said he’ll be asking his colleagues to stay the course and pursue an appeal through the state’s appellate courts and eventually the Supreme Court if needed.”
Unbelievable…..well it is actually par for the course.
Get real folks. Realize what the Orange County BOS is or is not. They’re foolish, they’re crazy, and they have no idea how to provide for worthwile government neccesities that the citizens require.
RECALL, REMAIN PRUDENT, and REMEMBER what is important to you and your family as taxpayers.
When is the B of Stupidvisors going to stop apending money we don’t have?
mensarino, no, I meant ‘mute’. Go look it up. If I mean something other than what I write in the future I’ll let you know in advance. Deal?
ocobserver thinks it is great entertainment to watch a moron spend millions trying to take away pensions from Deputy Sheriff’s that were given to them during a contract negotiation. Moronloch was the county treasurer when the 3 at 50 pension was passed and he had no objections then. In order to continue the great entertainment I guess ocobserver should run for the next BOS election or would that be a mute point? or deal?
Will that be before or after the register goes belly up?
Nope, sorry, but Mensario was right. “Mute” is not the correct word to use in that sentence. It is “moot.” Sort of like this whole subject now that I think about it.
Moorlach running county government should be a full time job for you. give up your personal war against the deputies. the taxpayers want you to stop wasting money. wake up and smell the ruling.
ocobserver: The county won’t go BK–get a grip…….but lets say for instance your right….cut the deputy pay and the county will then be in big trouble. NO PAY NO WORK…..then who is going to handle all the bulls**T calls not to mention the life threatening calls. Let see armed man shot at deputy while they were chasing him. Humm lets see…how many of you yahoos would sign up for that job…….what price is any deputies life……..i think they don’t make enough….you people need to shut up and quit complainig……if it was your pay and pension you would be fighting for it too!!!
Let’s take it to the Supreme court then.
Part of the problem is that the judge is receiving almost the same pension. That seems like a conflict of interest to me.
Let;s go BK if we have to. The time is ripe for a change.
bk does not relieve pension debt—–it’s the law…know why? Because pension “liability” isn’t liability in the sense moorlach means……most of the money repaid to the retiree comes from pension investment and employee contribution— this whole thing is a trumped up lie by this very stupid or crooked bos…..sad oc continues to waste millions on litigation…
You did not earn the retroactive pension increase so you should not receive it. Keep up the fight for the taxpayers Moorlach. The public safety pensions are ridiculously high and need to be reigned in. They have pushed the state near bankruptcy.
Mike, ask old Johnny Moorlach about HIS pension.
After all…fair is fair.
wrong—- see above post—- the so called liability is mostly not paid by taxpayers…..you are a dupe to the moorlach spin…and by supporting him you are spending millions— the lawyers love you—- i gotta laugh
Nice try Moorlach. You did not get them this time but at least you tried to stand up for us taxpayers. These Union Mobs, I mean Pensions are too excessive and over bloated, it is unreal! The most important part here is that you/we tried. We’ll get them next time. Its a shame these so-called elected leaders have brought the entire state to its knees with debt borrowing, ridiculous union contracts and anti- business climate. More and more people are becoming desperately unempolyed. And those pension contracts are becoming more and more irritating and UNFAIR. Taxpayers should show more outrage to those greedy Union leaders. We can not be a silent majority. Moorlach may have lost in court today but at least he tried to bring down thebig ogre.
The most imortant part durning a budget crisis is to not waste money and make calculated decisions ahead of time about what you can do or win and what you can’t do or can’t win.
If Moorlach and the BoS did this we would be in a lot better shape. Many bloggers saw th whole housing bubble meltdown coming and pointed out how it could impact goverment revenues. T
he BoS and state leaders cose to stick there head in the sands and would not listen.
Therefor they have had a poor performance and are the ones that should be taking pay and beenfit cuts but no!
They takemoney fronm the rank and file, won’t give up one thing acknowledge there mistakes and continue to waste money on this lawsuit that they were told by a few law firms they could not win.
And then they go back to Court and don’t even follow the judges instructions. Fire Marinero and Moorlach. BoS stand up against stupidity we can’t afford it any more!!!!!!!
The state is broke, and there will be no more tax dollars coming. You start by cutting the pay of ALL state, county, and municipal employees 15% to 20%. If they want to quit, let them quit. State unemployment is over 10%. I’m sure we can get lots of people to fill the jobs. But if they insist on these insane pensions and benefits, the likes of which private employees rarely see, then it is time to do what anyone who in deeply in debt must do - CUT.
stupid, there are tons of armed law-abiding citizens in OC who, left on their own, would fare quite well without the cops. Most just call the cops because it’s a formality they have to go through. But if the cops ever refuse to do their job, fine. Most don’t need them anyway. If the neighbors need to transport a bad guy they can just throw him in the back of a pickup and take him to wherever. the cops never had a corner on the market in the business of protection. When self-survival kicks in most don’t wait for a cop anyway. So if you civil servants decide to stop working because you feel you aren’t paid enough….knock yourselves out.
*dies laughing, rolling on the floor*
Seriously? No…seriously?
You’re telling me that there are tons of suburban commandos out there who are too lazy to mow their own lawns, tooling around in their Beemers, armed to the teeth like John Wayne and Ted Nugent’s hidden manchild, ready to defend the women and children in case of heathen (insert Russian, Zombie, Alien, poor people) attack? They’ll round up the posse from watching the Laker playoffs, and circle the sedans and minivans, so we poor, helpless folks can depend on them?
Riiiiiiiiight. Never mind the fact that I would trust 75% of these pampered knuckleheads with a potato gun and a banana. I mean, having their weapons might cut down their Viagra usage, but really, how many are ready to face a real enemy? Count them…I’ll wait.
No, thanks. I think I’ll just call 911 and put a bit of trust in the people who do it for a living. Not to say that they should be able to retire at 55 with ridiculous pensions, but dude, when I look at the yahoos watching their gardeners mow their lawns, drinking their mojitos and whining about traffic, I’m just not sure that they have “the right stuff” for the job.
*snicker*
Wouldn’t trust…not would. Laughing makes for bad typing.
Nice!!
Wow your a real cowboy, and want the wild wild west to come back. This would be fine until the gradual anarch you are advocating impacts you or one of your loved ones, then you’d be shaking in your boots, crying would go out and seek revenge by taking the law in your own hand thu perpetuating this type of wild west scenario. Seen what’s happening in Mexico or areas of LA where there are a lot shootings. Get Real! That is not what OC is about!
Thank God for term limits for these buffoons.
***Many of the county employee contracts are coming up for renewal. That is the proper forum to discuss the pension issue. A new tier for new employees perhaps?***
Bingo, this is what needs to be done. Those who have it already keep it, the new guys get hired on with a new system in place. The current deal hasn’t been in place that long, so in the long run it won’t have that much of an impact if they go back to the old system for new hires who agree to hire on at the new rate.
****can the county go BK and amend all prior pensions?****
If they go actually go BK then yes, but they cannot file BK just to reset the contracts, as demonstrated in the recent city of Vallejo case a couple months ago.
When good ‘ol John Moorlach has finally thrown in his towel, he will have spent over 100 deputies-worth od 30-years careers complete with 3% @ 50. Good one Moorlach!
is it just me, or do we have a circus for a board of supervisors? absolutely embarrasing, and I must say, Janet Nguyen is about 3 brain-cells shy of being mentally disabled
johnny, simply shorting the new guys on pension benefits won’t even put a dent in the problem, pal. The entire public fiscal apparatus is $billions$ in the red. The entire system (active retirees and employees) desperately calls for a total revamping. If this isn’t done and we experience a bond market dislocation due to excessive debt on the books (80% probability) it will be time to hit the reset button, shred all existing public union contracts and start over again. Your choice. But i would recommend option #1 in attempt to stave off a complete reset. Either way won’t be pretty but option #1 would be less painful for ya in the long run. I wish you luck.
wow– what a total misunderstanding of the law above!
Yep, we gonna take care of some bad guys real good. Hyuuk.
I love the tard ocobserver insisting that the proper term is “mute point”. Hey dummy, have you even taken a five minute break from posting on this site today? Get a life.
i think he’s moorlach or his elf…
He must be looking for the “moot” button on his remote control
Ocobserver—You illiterate, the word “mute” is incorrect in that context.Look it up if you don’t believe me.
Got to hand it to Moorlach for figuring out how to keep his name in the headlines without using campaign contributions. (not that he could raise 1.7M in that regard anyway) The problem is best addressed prospectively not retroactively. New tiers, civilians, future contract negotiations etc. Don’t think Moorlach’s “colleaques” are going to let him lead them down the drain again after the Hutchens and planned parenthood dealios.
you’d think….but so far these co workers of the moorster don’t seem too bright…
Recall this board— they continue to pitch millions down a hole on this issue….
Why doesn’t Moorlach just put on his big boy pants and admit to why he has such a personal vendetta against the Orange County Sheriff’s Department? Then he can concentrate on serving the public rather than wasting their tax dollars. Moorlach, JUST TAKE YOUR BALL AND GO HOME.
Does the judge age the same pension at 50? If he does, no wonder he tossed it.
Judge should have recused him or herself.
Here’s Moorlach, arrogantly willing to continue to throw taxpayer money down the drain while at the same time taking a huge car allowance, taxpayer-paid 401(a), and his own taxpayer-paid defined benefit plan contribution. How hypocritical can one person be? Slow but sure, taxpayers are waking up to this guy’s con - trample all over the little guy while gouging the taxpayers like a Wall Street sharpie when it comes to his own personal finances. Not only that, he’s once again throwing around the “B” word, just like he did in 1995, without regard to the effect that has on the County’s credit standing. This egomaniac opportunist has proven that he will consistently do anything to advance his own self-interest, no matter the consequences to anyone else. He’s not the “Christian” he claims to be, but rather a walking, talking sandwich board for greed, envy, and disdain for others.
OCobserver for Sheriff 2010 ! We can disband the police and fire services and pick-up loads of citizens will magically appear when needed to do whatever needs be done. Asst. Sheriff Karnak can look in the crystal ball and send them ” wherever”. In fact, maybe he should skip Sheriff and run for King of the World. After all, he knows everything, speaks only the truth, never misspeaks, and has al the facts. Best of all, he can instantly evaluate the character and values of any of us from our posts, and is flawless in determining who deserves what in this world. All Hail, King of the World.
First of all, the judge is a “she” not a “he” Hank. And, LA judges have a separate pension plan altogether. Then, Moorlach is doing this strictly out of vengeance because AOCDS backed an opposing candidate for his seat. He has no regard for the men and women in law enforcement. He also has absolutely no problem spending OUR $1.7 million plus for his personal vendetta. He needs to be voted out or recalled at this point. We need a BOS that will concern itself with the “county” budget and fighting the state to keep OUR money out of their hands. I can only hope the other “SUPES” see it this way.
Sounds like OCOBSERVER has ridden in a few cop cars, eh?
Supervisor John Moorlach is a hero in my mind. I hope he and the BOS continues with the case.
Our state depends on beating back these union thugs so that our over taxed businesses can survive and prosper.
All you union thugs need to know that the citizens os this state are on to you and thats why the 1A vote turned against you.
Yes. Hero Moorlach.
By the way, his guaranteed pension would be….??????
Hypocrisy at it’s finest.
Moorlach is no less a trough feeding thug than the deputies. His high moral ground is crumbling under his feet.
Hey “Reverend,”
Is it okay if I continue to receive my penion if I never belonged to a union? That’s right. I get a PERS pension but I never belonged to a union in my life. Can you now cancel my thug status?
I think this case cannot be heard by a recipient of basically the same pension. If that is not available, then filing BK is probably the best answer.
Reverend—-Fleecing?If you are ,in fact, a clergyman you should know all about fleecing people.Don’t you enjoy tax-exempt status?
Why, yes, he does. *snicker* Maybe one cure for the budget crisis is right there.
Remove tax exempt status from the churches. Yup, make them all pay like the rest of us. Why the real estate taxes on the Catholic Church alone would cure the crisis.
Howsa ’bout that, Reverend?
Can they cut the present sheriffs dept budget? Don’t hire anymore deputies, no supplies, no new personal….cut off their funding completely and blame it on the pension system. We just can’t afford you anymore. We’ll pay the current pension…. but to do it….. your department will be starved out.
Hey JohnB!! The next time you are burglarized, robbed, assaulted or involved in an accident where you or a member of your family is injured, be sure to call Moorlach to respond and handle the case. I’m sure he kows how to prepare a case to present to the DA’s Office. Afterall, if ity worked your way, that would be your only answer. OOPS! Moorlach has no background in law enforcement. SILLY ME! I forgot.
I love my fat pension check every month. Thanks OC
LOL! Me, too!
But I’ve only been retired 6 years so I’m still just collecting the money I PUT INTO IT. Yes, I won’t get any of YOUR money until mine runs out. Oh, and there is there thing called interest.
OCJay905: If we can’t afford their pensions, we have no other choice but cut the pensions back or cut the department’s budget.
Unless you or others can find another way to come up with the money.
I do have one solution for the state’s budget mess…START DRILLING FOR OIL OFF THE COAST!!!!
OCJay905: I would vote to start excecutions on death row and put any savings into the sheriffs pension fund.
Lay of all the County Deputy Sheriffs and use a recording that says please rise the court is now in session. Do you what sugar in your coffee your honor.
Well JohnB….It’s time to do your homework. YOU (taxpayers) don’t pay for the pension. Most of law enforcement contribuetes from their own pay toward their retirement monies. What you are paying for, is the $1.7+ million that Moorlach has spent so far on this frivkilous law suit. How much more of YOUR money do you want to spend on this issue. I frankly, am tired of seeing that money go to lawyers who are chomping at the bit knowing this isn’t going anywhere. Do you hear about the BOS cuting their wages or pensions? Hell NO! It’s a personal thing with Moorlach and it has to stop for the good of Orange County.
JohnB…I really like your idea about the executions though. CASECLOSED…it’s “want” not “what” ??????? Get a dictionary before you blog.
OOPS! “cutting”….their $$$$$$$
Hahaha … now aren’t YOU embarrassed?
Y’all have a great day and a safe Memorial Day. And, please remember what Memorial Day is all about. “Freedom Isn’t Free”! I’m going out now and enjoy my 3% at 50 retirement.. After 30 years of protecting the likes of Moorlach and others, I deserve it.
You deserve SQUAT …….. Taxpayers should cease funding ANYTHING towards YOUR absurd benefits …… BANKRUPTCY is MUCH MUCH better option .
The deputies have offered to get rid of the current pension plan, in exchange for the sweet one the BOS has. It was met with resistance. Why? Because the BOS have a better deal than the deputies.
OCJay905: The pension is funded by taxpayers…why else would the BOS be in court. ANY underfunding of the pension has to be made up from the taxpayers. Since the market has dropped all state and local pensions are under funded . Your fund manager made bad investments and now the taxpay has to make up the difference. That’s the problem.
Johnb says: Since the market has dropped all state and local pensions are under funded .
Not true. PERS is doing just fine, thank you.
load52: We need to cut the BOS pension and perks too. No more free cars, free gas, free travel…..we can’t afford them either.
The City must NOT give up this fight …. their survival depends upom it. Retroactive benefits should never be granted, should never have snuck through and MUST be reversed.
Civil Servants are the GREEDYest entity on earth.
Right … I worked for 32 years in a job making substantially less than my counterparts in private industry because I was greedy. Or maybe it was because I believed that I was contributing something to my community. Yup, that was it.
Bull, why are you so bitter about civil servants? Did you take the test and fail?
OCJay905: If a local police or sheriff’s department makes a major bust…that department s should keep most of the money for it’s pension. No more giving it to the Feds or state.
This is hilarious…no one understands how screwed California is.
Everyone wants their share of the pie but no one wants to pitch in to buy ingredients.
The state constitution needs to be dissolved and a constitutional convention needs to take place to re-write it, this state’s pension system, misguided proposition have brought us to this place, we continually want more services from the state yet we never want our taxes raised.
Why do you think for the first time, Everyone in Sacramento is sitting down nicely because both sides get to make deep cuts to programs they never liked …21.7 billion worth of cuts….
If they do choose to re-write it…kiss the pensions, prop 13, and many many other things Good Bye!
Rollbacks for new hires seems reasonable and if I was a county employee I would feel that by opposing it the union is jeopardizing current employees pension.
Wages are spiraling down and home prices continue to drop. A new tier is appropriate.
The current employees are the ones stuck with a huge debt on there now overpriced homes and can’t afford to have there benifits reduced. Since prospective new hires can buy a home at 50 % of what current employees paid, and can borrow half as much for their loan.
They will be fine with lower benifits, times have changed.
Berardino and there union are hoodwinking their current members and jeopardiazing current employees benefits for the new hires down the road.
Tiers happen and will continue to happen.
Now is clearly the appropriate time for a new tier given what has happened on the front end and now the back end of the housing bubble.
Current employees don’t be sucked in to their Unions game to keep the fees of future members justified by this battle.
Their union should be working for the current due paying employees not future ones who have yet to pay one cent.
Time to consider exiting your union if they do not get real, to reasonable negotiations of the county,
Your union has crossed the line and is putting you in jeopardy. Stand up to them putting your interests 2nd.
Rollbacks are fine. But if we’re rolling, then let’s roll back the unnecessary perks of the fatcat execs.
Fair is fair!
Sounds like you are one of the pigs now feeding…………. Sorry, but CURRENT as well as new Civil Servants need to get less …. MUCH MUCH less.
JohnB, month ending January 31, 2009 the OCERS reported net earnings over $200 million after payouts, and a net worth of $6.9 Billion. That’s just one month, but you get the idea. The fund is still healthy. Thanks for your concerns, things could be better, might get worse, but for now don’t believe all of the propaganda from the Glass is Empty People. Change is needed to give taxpayers relief and some security, but the panic suggested by some for another unnecessary bankruptcy is unproductive at best.
Who retires at 50??? People who work for any government need to get it into their retarded skulls, that they are civil servants. Not private sector employees, the comparisons to what private sector people make to civil servants needs to stop. Getting even half of your former salary after you retire is absurd, most retirees do not get anything like that. Double dipping needs to stop….look at the former LAPD chief….Parks makes over 200k from his LAPD pension, then over 170k for his LA City Council job…..please…..this is a joke.
Why are blue collar workers being paid professional people’s salary rates?
Our system is fundamentally flawed, we need a new Constitution in the State of California.
Bull, its the COUNTY, not the CITY.
LOL, ocobserver, I’m not your Pal and I’m not a public employee. So I’m not directly affected by this other than the average citizen. I just have an opinion about it is all.
Do any of you whining morons have any idea of what a 3@50 pension actually is? Try living on $60,000 a year before taxes in the OC. Then, pay state and federal taxes, make a car payment and a mortgage payment because no one can actually pay off a house in Orange County with 30 years of service with the OC Sheriff… and God help you if you have a kid or two in college or have to pay half of that pension to the ex-wife and still help to take care of wife number 2 (if she’s even still in the picture) Yes, Law Enforcement is VERY hard on a marriage! Then add up the crazy gas prices, food prices, and of course utilities. Never mind any recreation. What do you expect, we are supposed to live in a rented trailer in Garden Grove and take a bike everywhere? And those of you who think we didn’t pay for the vast majority of our retirement, it’s only been since 2001 that they county NEGOTIATED the pension plan you’re complaining about.
No one, public or private, should retire at 50 with a pension. Make the pension age 67, just like social security.
Then, bring everyone into a basic plan, not funded by taxpayers but by their own contributions. Have them pay into social security if they choose.
If a deputy or safety officer is legitimately disabled in the line of duty, then we do right by them.
But sorry, sheriffs? No one should retire at 50, or 55, with a free ride. Not you, not me, not anyone.
As a current employee of the OCSD, I agree that we need to take into consideration the economic problems the county is facing. I think the majority of us in the department would have no objection to creating a new tier. The new deputies hired would know exactly what their salary and benefits are prior to joining our department. This is fair. What is not fair is to take away the current benefits that were negotiated for and agreed to by the county.
OCSD had a budget shortfall of $52 million and Sandy is forced to cut a big chunk of pork off the hog. And that $52 million shortfall was BEFORE the citizens overwhelmingly slapped down Props 1a-1e! Watch that $52 billion figure balloon to $75-$100 million, easy. And with sales tax and property taxes continuing to plummet WITH NO HINT OF A BREAK IN THE STORM ON THE HORIZON, this is bound to go on for years. Obama just told Arnold to pound sand when Arnie was back in DC last week and asked for a handout! ha. When the State files for Chapter 11 it’s all over except for the shouting! ha. You fellas who are part of public union will be converted over to a 201-k with no match and SS by the end of 2010. Mark my words. If you can’t see the tidal wave about to hit the beach you must be blind. Run for the hills, boys. Run for them there hills! ha. Welcome to pain city!
Love how Mike Hawk wants to leave the new hires twisting in the wind! ha! Let the throat cuttin’ begin! ha. Next all those with 20+ on the books will want everyone with less than 10 years service to take a big hit so that the the old timers will be able to rip off the system like everyone before them did! ha! And watch the membership start attacking the union management like Mike Hawk has recommended. The in-fighting is a hoot! The ones who were always locked arm in arm are now involved in a huge cat fight. I’m just going to sit back with a nice cold lemonaide in the front row for a laugh or two. I knew it would eventually come to this. I told all of you about it more than a year ago. You laughed it off. Not so funny now, is it? Keep the entertainment rolling in, fellas. Thinking about disconnecting cable in the next month of two. I will get all the laughs I need from watching your brotherhood fall apart at the seams.
Shame on all of you who have the audacity to want to take away one third of the very hard earned and well deserved pension that you, through your elected board of supervisors, promised me I could have. If it were not for that promise, I would not have retired. Understand the facts. “3 at 50″ only means that at 50 years of age you are eligable to collect 3% of your salary for each year you are employed. Most of of us do not enter law enforcement until we’re 25 or older. So do the math, very few actually retire at 50.
Shame on you!. You have no clue as to what I have endured over the 30 years that I served as your centurion. I have been spat on, kicked, bit, punched, shot at, and have had my life threatened for the actions I have repaetedly taken for your safety. I spent many years patrolling your neighborhood, protecting you, your loved ones, and your property, while you slept snuggly during the night, or while you were safely enjoying a holiday feast with your family. During my career I have done everything in my power to keep those who want to harm you behind bars.
Shame on you for not wanting me to enjoy the retirement you promised. Due to my job, I have had to witness more pain and sorrow than most of you will ever know, and the emotional and physical stress I have endured for you, has taken its toll on my body.
For a variety of job related reasons, most of us who serve and protect you do not live past the age of 65.
I do not stand alone, most of my brothers and sisters in law enforcement feel the same as I do and have similar stories to tell. If you had to walk in our shoes, you would not be making those foul comments.
Lastly, shame on those of you who call my fellow officers “union thugs.” I am very proud of the leadership of the Orange County Association of Deputy Sheriffs and D.A. Investigators for all that they have done to protect my pension.
What are we truly worth? Remember, we are the only ones that stand between you and anarchy.
I for one thank you for your service. The job you do is one that 95% of the population could not do, neither physically nor emotionally. So again, thanks.
OCMom says:
May 22, 2009 at 8:24 pm
More of our tax money down the toilet thanks to Moorlach and the rest of the BoS. When will it stop? I am so tired of seeing our money poured down the drain on this lawsuit. ENOUGH!!!
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Oh yeah, well I’m tired of PAYING for the retroactive gold plated Cadillac pensions of a bunch of GED educated moron cops.
So put that in your bong and toke on it OCMom.
so exactly how much have you given them?
Right observer. As if you have time to watch television. We all know your pathetic life revolves around writing moronic comments on the OC Register website.
Love it!
This Democratic State has run it’s course and now want to devulge into a lame exscuse to “try” and blame the hard working people of their F’d up spending. OCERS has invested well and continues to do well under the Liberal mess they have put us in, so they can kiss my a** and whine all they want!
The best bet would be wait until the contracts run out and renegotiate, because the judge is going to do the same thing again. Right now there are plenty of other cuts the county can make until then.
ocobserver is in denial……….we don’t need cops??? come on get a grip. what planet are you from. you must be unemployed to always be on the blog. goodnite!!
I love how some people here exaggerate a situation they now nothing about. Suggesting in-fighting, jealousy and “cat fighting”. Close as I can figure there are about 100-150 people who post on the E-Register on a regular basis, many not from OC, so this is hardly a window on what’s going on in the world, or how people in the real world are reacting to a story or situation. Unless you live or work among people you don’t know how they behave, think or act. Go ahead, disconnect your cable. Better yet, disconnect your PC and go out your front door. The sun is shining, the wind is blowing, children are playing, most people are going to/from work, shopping and going to church. The world goes on despite the Doomsday claptrap spread by frightened old curmudgeons who never participated in life, just sat by and observed while others acted. The point of this article and the point of the judge’s decision is the Pension Plan is legal. Want to change it? Then use other means, including negotiation. Meanwhile, some here have not observed that there are much bigger dollar issues that pensions contributing to the financial crisis. Take your blinders off.
To all the whiners here. I’d love to see you work the streets as a cop for 30 years. At 51, 52, 53, your body is shot. The injuries and wear and tear which are inevitable take a huge toll on you. You just don’t get it.
You don’t need cops? You can transport bad guys yourself with a neighbor? Good luck! Have you really ever talked to a legitimate “bad guy?” And as far as cops retiring at 50 ish, It is a young mans profession people. After 25 or so years of doing (In Orange County) such a thankless job, how do they continue to keep up with teen and early 20 year old crooks? Do you think OC is not like LA bcuz crooks just leave it alone?
MrHankey, what you stated is a complete dodge. The one guy mentioned that if the cop’s pay were reduced that they might refuse to answer calls and protect the public. I stated that the citizens themselves could do a fine job and protecting ourselves should the greedy cops refuse to serve us. And the fact is…we could. Most ‘bad guys’ are punks. They don’t have special powers that only cops can deal with. If not for frivilous lawsuits, most citizens would love to impose neighborhood justice on such punks. But their hands are tied by the system. And if you can’t chase the 20 year old punks anymore then you could paint over graffitti or pick up litter off the street to earn the taxdollars. We could find work for you. But paying you 90% of your last paycheck at age 50 is a scam and you know it.
The average CALPERS pension is $16,000 a year. About 1% of the pensions are over $100,000. Only safety employees can retire at 50. Not all public employees like those morons John & Ken claim.
My job was very difficult to attain. I had to go to college, stay out of trouble, refrain from drug use, stay in excellent physical condition, pay my bills on time and pass a very difficult an highly competitive exam process just to get hired. Then I had to undergo 5 months of very difficult training just to keep my job. Then I had to undergo another year of field training on probation being evaluated daily just to keep my job. I underwent constant training my entire career. Failing the exams at the end of the training was not an option.
I worked nights, weekends and holidays. While most people were at home enjoying New Years, Christmas or Thanksgiving, I was out at some homicide scene or horrific accident involving a dead kid(s). Along with my fellow law enforcement professionals, I have seen & experienced things so horrible most people can’t imagine. I have done everything from pull dead kids out of pools to shoot it out with armed robbers.
I never complained. I showed up for work every day on time and did my job quietly. While you were sleeping, I was out there on patrol. When you called 911 in the middle of the night I was there as quickly as possible. If you hear a siren in the middle of the night, there was a good chance it was me going to an emergency.
I worked my butt off for over 30 years in law enforcement. I went into my career in peak physical condition. I could run 2 miles in just over 12 minutes. I could bench press close to 300 pounds. I could do 20 pull ups.
Now, my neck, back, shoulders and knees are shot due to work related injuries. I can barely sleep. I can barely get out of bed in the morning. Some days I can barely walk. I can barely raise my arms. My lungs are permanently damaged from having pneumonia I caught twice on the job. I have high blood pressure as a result of the job & need regular medication. I had a heart attack at 43 but survived & returned to field duty.
I was fortunate that when I was medically retired against my wishes, my retirement was such that I did not have to uproot my family and move. I earned every penny of my retirement and make no apologies.
Stan, all I am saying is get ready to give some of that pension back to the system. The state is going bankrupt, man. Can’t you read the writing on the wall? From the last ballot election it’s obvious the taxpayers aren’t paying another dime to fund your retirement. Obama has already told Arnie to pound sand. No bailouts. There’s only one way to solve the problem, CUT CUT CUT. Since the pensions are one of the biggest anchors for the state they are going to get sliced and not just for new hires. The retirees and the active employees are going to have to take a big hit. There’s no other way. You can do it voluntarily or wait for a bond market dislocation and it will be done whether you like it or not. You folks need to wake up. It’s pretty much non-negotiable at this point. The smartest thing you could do is sit back down at the table and start making concessions. My dad once told me that Pride and Ignorance are two branches that grow off the same tree. I never forgot it.
The court of appeals and supreme court are made for just this type of case-new, novel and in need of several judges to confer together on it.
1 LA judge means nothing in the overall scheme-there are still 3 judges at the appeals court and then 5 judges at the supreme court-that is 9 different judges who will opine on the issue, or 900% more than the 1 judge who has made the intitial ruling.
As for cost, if the pensions costs being challenged are $500 million to $1 billion (and cost to defend is $1.7 to $5 million), it is still one half to one percent of the total liability.
So, let me make it easy for you to understand-if you were scammed out of say, $500-$1000 dollars, and you had a chance to get that money back and it would only cost you 50 cents to 1 dollar to find out, are you saying you would not spend that 50 cents to 1 dollar and give it a shot?????
I can tell you this, the way this state is upside down financially, I think the judges will look very hard at the issue-much more than a year ago.
JV, the only thing we have going against us that this point is that all the judges are on a similar retirement program. And judges aren’t as objective as you might think. But the double whammy here is that if they side with the trough feeders collecting the retroactive gifts the economy will take them down in the end anyway. We have headed for an economic calamity. It is unavoidable at this point. The spending you see at the federal level is simply unsustainable mathematically. Once the other industrialized nations get together and decide the dollar is no longer the reserve currency and downgrade us to a AA rating the game is truly over. I remember back in the late 90’s when they took down the old soviet union. That was NOT accomplished by military force, it was done with economic force. At that time I told everyone to watch out. That we were next. You see, superpowers do not fit in nicely with the brave new global community. Superpowers upset the balance of control. Therefore, they are dismantled, chopped up and integrated. That is exactly what you are seeing here. It is unavoidable. At this point about all you can do is plan for it and try to protect yourself the best you can
Regardless of what they did in the OC Sheriffs Dept, nothing was rewarded retroactively to those of us with CALPERS pensions. I paid over $480,000 of my salary into my pension plan over the course of my career. I earned every penny for reasons previously stated & will not be giving any back. The economy is starting to show signs of life. CALPERS pensions will be fine. Don’t confuse those with the OC pensions. They are separate.
Sorry Stan, but when the CalPers max retirement was raised from 85% to 90+ in, I think, about 2001, that was retroactive, and that is just one of the legal arguments put forward by those trying to do away with OUR pensions. CalPers and OCERS are seperate entities, yes, but we’re in the same boat, under the same threats.
Oldski, Are you sure about that? My dad who retired in 1981 is still at 75%
Yes, my brother stayed another year (37 total) to qualify for the new PERS max . Just like the OC change in 2001 required members to stay until June 28, 2002 to qualify for 3@50, regardless of how many years you had in. I don’t know when PERS safety went to 85%, probably in the late ’90s, then to 90% and did not apply to those already retired, just to those who were active when the increase became effective. I benefitted from the OC change without having to change my planned date. We should all be grateful and not ashamed like some think.
Oldski, I was making reference to those that had already retired before 3%at 50 was enacted. There is information being put out that those already retired have been bumped up on the 3% at 50 formula. That information is false.
You are correct. Supervisor Moorlach sued on behalf of the county claiming that when the previous board agreed to increase/enhance the benefit for years already worked by active members, that was a retroactive gift to those active members. Fortunately the courts have not agreed with him. Yes, some people make it sound as if everyone who participates, past or present, got an increase, and that is false. They also lie when they claim we had a 2% at 50 system previously, and that reversing the pension will reduce costs by 33% ! In reality the system (OCERS) prior to 2002 equated to 2.7% @55. For those immediately affected in 2002 the increase amounted to an avg of less than 10%. Any way you look at it, it was achieved through collective bargaining and negotiation. Last I heard those were respected principles. Enjoy Stan, you earned what you have, and God bless your father as well.
Thanks pal. I appreciate that.