- NEWS
- SPORTS
- BUSINESS
- ENTERTAINMENT
- LIFE
- TRAVEL
- OPINION
OC deputies ask LA judge to sanction county officials
April 3rd, 2009, 4:55 pm · 80 Comments · posted by NORBERTO SANTANA JR.
The deputy sheriffs have come out swinging in their legal battle with Orange County supervisors, calling on a Los Angeles County Superior Court judge to sanction the supervisors for filing a “frivolous” amended legal complaint this week.
County supervisors sued the deputies union and the local retirement system last year, arguing that the retroactive portion of the “three at 50” pension enhancement granted in 2001 violates the state constitution’s debt limits.
At issue are the legal briefs that county attorneys filed in response to a ruling by Judge Helen Bendix – who rejected the county’s lawsuit in February but allowed officials to resubmit arguments if they could prove that pension payments were busting the local budget.
They didn’t exactly follow those instructions.
Instead, county attorneys filed arguments asking the judge to reconsider a San Diego lawsuit she cited, which unsuccesfully sought to invalidate a convention center deal because it depended on a lease that was alleged to violate the state constitution’s debt limits.
That, attorneys for the deputies argue, is a waste of everyone’s time.
And they want Bendix to make the county pay.
“The county’s frivolous amended pleading is causing uncessary delay at the expense of the court’s and the other parties’ time and resources. The Deputy Sheriffs respectfully suggest that the county’s complete disregard of this court’s Feb. 26 order constitutes good grounds for the court to set a sanctions hearing, on its own motion, against the county and its attorneys,” wrote Joseph Wyatt, Jr., an attorney representing the deputy sheriffs, in his response to the county’s most recent legal argument.
Attorneys for the deputies also want sanctions against the county for including a section of the deputies union bylaws in their legal documents, something they argue was plainly confidential.
Deputy union president Wayne Quint declined comment for this story.
But Mario Mainero, chief of staff to County Supervisor John Moorlach, said the county is on sound footing.
“The specific amendment to the paragraph in our complaint, we believe, answers the judge’s concerns,” he said. Mainero also added that seeking sanctions may be a bit off because, “California has a liberal policy of permitting amendments to complaints.”
So once again, we’ll see who’s right and who’s wrong when Judge Bendix rules.
Reader Comments
Comments are encouraged, but you must follow our User Agreement.- Keep it civil and stay on topic.
- No profanity, vulgarity, racial slurs or personal attacks.
- People who harass others or joke about tragedies will be blocked.
80 Comments
Leave a Reply
-
ADVERTISEMENT
-
DENA BUNIS, Washington bureau chief, 202-628-6381 or dbunis@ocregister.com
BRIAN JOSEPH, Sacramento correspondent, 916-449-6046 or bjoseph@ocregister.com
JENNIFER MUIR, County government reporter, 714-796-7813 or jmuir@ocregister.com
JOEL WALSH, Washington bureau intern, 202-628-6381 or jwalsh@ocregister.com
MARTIN WISCKOL, Politics reporter, 714-285-2867 or mwisckol@ocregister.com twitter.com/MartinWisckol
Click here for bloggers' biographies
-
-
-
-
-
ADVERTISEMENT
Lets hope for the taxpayer’s sake that Mainero isn’t wrong…AGAIN!
Wait until you find out the OCSD will be releasing inmates early because of budget problems and the money used for this lawsuit could have been used to those keep inmates in jail.
Can anyone tell me why Moorlach didn’t get all hot and bothered about this when it happend? Why wait so many years to take action? Certainly makes it look like he is pissed off at the deputies.
I hope the judge gives it good to the BOS, they have earned it.
WOW! How many 10’s of thousands of taxepayers $ is Moorlach going to spend of his personnel vendetta against the Sheriff’s. You tax-payers that voted this screwball in deserve a “screwing.” and we all have to pay because his personnel agenda.
Spell check… spellcheck - one word or two? Don’t really care, just USE IT.
The BOS has spent over $1.5 Million so far. They will probably have to pay Attorneys fees to the Sheriff’s Association and the Orange County Retirement board, when this case is finished. So, we are looking at alot more than what has been spent so far. Let us not forget the lawsuits by individual retired deputies, against the County of Orange and the BOS, if the BOS prevails. (Not likely) No words come to mind to describe the stupidity of the BOS.
Source: Anchorage Daily News
Todd Palin’s half-sister was arrested Thursday after police say she broke into a Wasilla home for the second time this week to steal money.
Palin is the husband of Gov. Sarah Palin. He declined comment.
Diana Palin, 35, entered a home near Wasilla’s Multi-Use Sports Complex and attempted to steal cash from the owner’s bedroom, police said.
She also broke into the same house on Tuesday and stole $400, they said.
….
Read more: http://community.adn.com/node/140107
Somebody needs to bring this out of control BoS back to earth. They think they are above the law while the attempt break contracts at the expense of taxpayers wasting money that could have kept social workers and planned parenthood around at a time when it is most needed since the great depression. Meanwhile they remodel their offices and increased benefits while they attempt to take away from those who supported those who ran against Moorlachs election campaignm thinking the voters are too stupid to notice and ruining there chances to be elected anywhere in this country again. Enjoy your last terms in office, the public is now armed with information via the internet and we will not forget your complete obnoxious foolishness!
Hepl Judge Bendix, don’t stand for this disrespectful disgrace!
Pay attention Fil Hussein Oaks- we’re talking about the OCSD Deputies and the Board of Supervisors here, try to focus.
Can somebody tell me why an “LA county judge” would have any juristiction over Orange county supervisors?
Thos BoS is going to keep this up until they are told to “cut it out”…quit riding a dead horse!
All of the OC Supervisors need to go back to school. All of them are failing to act for the betterment of OC. They clearly want to push a radical agenda. The OC Supervisors who are attacking the union are also attacking Planned Parenthood of OC.
For everyone who doesn’t know, or who always has had health insurance, the OC no longer has a county health clinic or hospital….In addition, the OC no longer pays for sex health education in our public schools. Since the OC stopped providing services, Planned Parenthood of OC has taken on the responsibilities. Now, the OC supervisors are attempting to block funding to the PPOC. They have no right to stop the funds, and because the OC Supervisors are all right-wing radical conservatives, they are insinuating that the PPOC uses their public funding to support abortion. Anyone who know anything about PPOC from coast-to-coast, will tell you that abortion is NOT the purpose of Planned Parenthood, it’s the exact opposite! They want to prevent abortions (while certain religious/political groups want to avoid the whole concept of sex!)! The OC Supervisors are incredibly stupid because while they are wasting everyone’s money with this BS, no legal authority exists for them to block the funds.
Sue the Sheriff’s Department! I love inmates!
The case was moved to LA because of a conflict of interest law. One public agency (OCERS) was being sued by another public agency (County of Orange). The law required the suit to be moved to prevent undue influence from political entities.
Unbelievable. Johnny & Mario need to learn to take their losses and move on. For someone so concerned with the County budget shortfall they are wasting alot of money pursuing something they have been told by everyone (except the lawyer charging them to take the case) they cannot win.
When was Mainero hired as County Counsel? He pretends to be the attorney for the County, I thought that job belonged to someone else. Can we sue him for legal malpractice? or for impersonating an attorney?
I think the deputies attornies are going to get rich (more rich) off the county BOS poor decision to appeal.
Who gets to retire at 50? I appreciate the public service, but the early retirement and full pension needs to stop. If they were not government workers, they would need to work at minimum until 62. The unions pay for the campaigns, and they expect something in return when they get their person elected. Government workers should have the same pensions as a majority of Americans.
It’s TIME to SUE the BOS for all they’re worth!! WAIT….that would be NOTHING…LOL.
SUE ‘em until they can’t afford to buy a single gallon of fuel for their OVERPRICED, paid-for-by-the-taxpayers’ , luxury land yachts!!
Start with Warlocks’ Cadillac Escalade…..
In this economy the deputy sheriffs are being greedy and could care less about the tax parers of Orange County. They should be happy there working and that they can retire at 50 when most of the people in Orange County are working way past 65 unless they go back to Mexico to retire. They get a lot of money for standing in a court room saying please be seated.
Absolute power corrupts, absolutely.
To case closed: They do more than stand in a court room. Educate yourself before spilling biased information.
to casclosed: the officer in that courtroom is there to protect citizens, judges, juries, and attorneys when things go crazy. Their presence alone makes the place safer. They are there to protect them from people who think like you.
I applaud the BOS. This is a good bet. They might be able to find a judge somewhere who’s not in the back pockets of the police union. Who knows? It’s a difficult task but not entirely impossible. But spending another $100k for an attorney with a possible return of hundreds of millions of taxdollars is a good bet in my opinion. You see, this has nothing to do with the facts or the law. Think about it. You are paying a retired trough feeder a retirement benefit that he did not earn. IMO that is thievery. If I was a retired cop I would refuse to take it. But you won’t find any with those ethics or morals. The ones who are sworn law enforcers have no problem with heisting your wallets. Hilarious. Welcome to TJ.
Go BOS GO!
By any means necessary we need to turn this ridiculous pension system around. If sherrifs, firefighters , judges, teachers and all our other government employees really have the best interests of the people they supposedly serve in mind, they will give up these lavish pensions plans which are simply legitimized theft of private sector funds.
When most of the people they serve in the private sector have had their retirement savings decimated, what makes our public servants think we in the private sector can or should be making up the losses in their equally decimated reitrement plans.
We really can’t even go to a judge on this matter because judges are receiving practically the same pension. It is a HUGE conflict of interest. We need independent arbitration.
This is a quality of life issue. Ours in the private sector is being stolen and the government sector is stealing it either because of greed, ignorance or both.
However these pension plans came into being, they no longer make sense and need to be scrapped. If a 401k is good enough for the private sector it is good enough for our public servants.
ocobserver: your rationale is wrong - it is not a good bet, it is gambling with public funds. There are better odds in Vegas.
JV imposter, when one lays down $1 with a 40% chance of a $10,000 return it is an excellent wager. You must be one of those esteemed heisters that I referred to previously. The ones who are sworn to protect and serve. ha. Our moral guardians. ha. Not much different from the TJ cops who pulls us over and demands a $40 fee. You just collect your money through the back door commonly referred to as tax revenues. ha.
Hey tax payers. Just back off. I have my 15,000 sq ft mansion in Newport Beach & 90 ft yacht to pay for. I can’t do it if you cut my pension.
ocbserver = Moorlach.
Your cover is blown Moorlach.
If it was really $1 with 40%, I would agree with you. Unfortunately it is gonna be $3,000,000 with less than 3%. Only a fool or a guy betting someone else’s money would make that bet. Oh…that would be Moorloch.
Unions are pushing their lucks. The OC County is no longer a milky cow. The situation will be like GM and Chrysler. No way out except bankruptcy. At some point in time, people will pass Propositions to limit all government workers to $100K max. Any expenditure above 10M will require voter’s approvals. When it comes to this point the political influential will be gone.
ocobserver: Eat your heart out clown. Why don’t you go mow Jon Coupal’s lawn.
sofedup, wow. you’re even more cynical than I am! so you think it would be that difficult to find a clean, uncorrupted judge anymore? if that’s the case we might as well pack up and move to honduras. at least down there when they steal your money you get a free bible!
to ocobserver and OC taxpayer, the two of you make it sound like the deputies just came in and demanded their retirement plan. This was a negotiated and contractual agreement that deputies contribute to, other benefits were given up to reach an agreement on this. What about all the lawsuits that will follow if the county reneges on this? There are people paying court ordered settlements based on these benefits. Do you think the benefactor of the decision will say it’s okay, you don’t have to pay me? The BoS should negotiate a new retirement plan for new people being hired after the new contract date. Then you can complain about the poor quality and lack of professionalism in the new deputies.
ocobserver, you make quite a few references to TJ and other places south of the border, are you a racist or dope dealer? You seem to have many encounters with LE down there. Maybe you can persuade the Bos to hire you as a recruiter for the OCSD.
The real winner is Mainero. He is making millions billing the county for this BS lawsuit on our dime, thank you Moorlach.
hadenough, we know how your contract ‘negotiations’ work. Last time you perpetrated a work slowdown in the jail clogging up the court system to get what you wanted. IMO that’s extortion. but since you are the ‘enforcers’ they call it ‘tactics’. ha. all of us aren’t bait swallowers out here, pal. we’ve had your number for many years. we read you like a book. the more you try to fool us the more you fall flat on your face. give it up. more and more are catching on. it’s becoming blatantly obvious.
hadenough, so i mention TJ and suddenly become a ‘dope dealer’ or a ‘racist’? ha. you must be a high ranking detective on the force with those inferences. why don’t you go sit in a donuthouse and go catch a napkin thief. ha.
OCObserver: “You see, this has nothing to do with the facts or the law”. So, once again all you offer is raw emotion and resntment of someone else’s position. Honduras, yeah, good idea, vaya con Dios.
Cancel the retroactive part or make the deputies pay for the retroactive benefit and everyone goes away happy. Oh wait, that is why they will never willingly give up retroactive because it would cost each one THOUSANDS of dollars each! No biggie if the county (taxpayers) pays, right? Sheer hypocracy!
MrSmithToo are you giving up the retroactive part of yours? how about your car allowance and Optional Benefit Package? your extra contribution to the 401a? and not to mention the free lunches during closdmsession meetings.
ocobserver, there wouldn’t be a place to put you in the OCJ!!!!! So just give back the napkin and thanks for the promotion.
This Board is like the frog in boiling water. They aren’t figuring out the fact that they are being cooked. Their actions in the past year has set them up for very tough challenges. Find good canidates to run against them and these guys are out. The difficulty is no longer beating an incumbent, it is simply finding the right canidate.
OC Taxpayer - those that stole your “quality of life” are the greedy, unregulated free market brokers and dealers that you and your right-wing cronies have spent the last two decades sitting around praising as models of economic acuity. Also, if public employees relied solely on 401(k)s, like Moorlach wanted them to, their retirement account would through no fault of their own be in the same tank as yours apparently is. But enough of that. In fact, you’re just an angry old man who always needs a “them” to blame the ills of the world on. Communists, terrorists, immigrants, homosexuals, poor people, public employees - it doesn’t matter to you as long as you can point your wretched finger of blame. Here’s the facts - your disgusting prejudices completely cloud your ability to rationally analyze an issue. This quest by the BOS is wrong on multiple levels, most importantly because it is 100% legally unsound. And we’ll all end up paying for their folly.
This law suit didn’t even make it to trial. The Judge tossed it, on three different motions by the Sheriff’s Assoc. If the case had any merit at all, a trial would have taken place. The BOS is caught between a rock and a hard place. They are not willing to admit defeat, so the tax payer continues to fund this fiasco.
les, who says the lawsuit doesn’t have merit? One judge who might have skin in the game? You’re obviously not very familiar with how our legal system works. Did you recently immigrate from another country or something? it isn’t like going to a doctor with a sore throat and the lab results come back with strep. Judges make their own INTERPRETATIONS of the law based on alot of arbitrary reasons, sometimes nefarious and sometimes not. but as a spectator up in the bleachers, I want to know how the law could justify taking my taxdollars to pay a pension benefit to a government trough feeder who did not specifically EARN that benefit. If that’s the law then I am living under a set of rules that are neither just nor fair if thievery is blessed by our legal system.
ocobserver the lawsuit is very likely to lack merit because the judge issued a summary judgment based on previous ruloing without having one hearing, it’s a slam dunk shut down.
You probably would be a goverment employee but you can’t pass a record check and be trusted in a position of authority or thought you would make more in the private sector and got burned for it and now are jealous.
Which one or both?
Not retire at 50 years old—–try on my uniform and go risk your life everyday for the $$ we make. Are you still living in a closet—did ya hear about the 4 Oakland Sgt’s that just got shot down? You don’t have the guts. Don’t tell me about the years I’ve put in. I’ll do 30 and retire at 51 yrs old. What is the longest job you people have ever had. Be jealous get a government job…take your chances on not getting shot and killed or disabled and then talk to me about why i can’t retire at 50 years old. Maybe I’ll get another job and work until I’m 60—who knows. Get a life. Quit being a winer
The sherrifs tried to rip off the county and the board of supervisors did their duties and services to protect
all the OC residents
We should lay off many sheriff as possible and reduce their budget. They made up the stories to scarce people
about the safety to enrich their pension
Put the issues on the ballot to see whether OC residents
approve their pension plan
nice impersonation j nguyen! you sound just like the moron on the dias.
There ya go, J Nguyen. Now you’re barking up the right tree. What was that recent ballot measure we had in OC? Measure M? You know, the one that asked whether the people should have a vote whether larger pension benefits are paid to government trough feeders. 75% of the voters approved it. Yet we are forced to pay defined pensions of 2.7%@55 for a run-of-the-mill county secretary or janitor and 3%@50 for a public safety trough feeders which cost us hundreds of millions of dollars without any direct vote. The world has changed. One upon a time private sector workers had defined pensions too. But, by and large, those went bye-bye. So why should public trough feeders be allowed to keep theirs? That should go before a vote of the people. The politicians are in the back pockets of the unions so they won’t vote in the interest of the people. We need to return government to ‘of, by and for the people’ as it was designed by our founders. It’s been completely turned inside-out by traitors and deceivers.
Stupid people -that was YOUR DECISION TO PUT ON A UNIFORM! That is the risk you take when you took your oath. Get off your pity party baloney. You are also a corrupt gang that thinks that if you have a badge you can abuse your power. Get off your high horse.
MrSmithToo, they did make additional payments to the retirement fund for several years after the agreement was reached, because the actuaries hired by the county and approved (recommended) by Moorlach projected what additional funds were needed at the time to pay for the retroactive part. If they were wrong, if the market changed, so be it. The employees did as required by the legal agreement. Personally, I thought it was too good to be true at the tome, but hey, Mr. Moorlach was the financial genious of the county at the time. He was County Treasurer AND member of the OC Retirement Board. Somehow he always manages to evade any responsibility. Its all on the record, the whole negotiation.
There are a variety of opinions and emotions logged onto this sites over safety member pensions as well as the extremely good benefits of being a government employee. I am retired from the Orange County Sheriff’s Office, medically in my 14th year. I was retired prior to the union and do not get the pension all of you are discussing, I can tell you while there are benefits to having a stable job, it’s not as rosy as some of you seem to think. In fact, as I go through the following history you may see why the deputies now have a union.
I was severally injured by a mentally ill person. I was notified that I was to be retired, despite my attempts to be returned to duty as a desk officer, or in a control module in the jail I was forced to retire. I was told it would take three months to process my retirement. Two weeks later I received a letter informing me I had been retired. It wasn’t until five years later that I learned my retirement had been rushed through because the employee’s were to received an increase. By their pushing the paperwork through they didn’t have to include me and saved the county untold dollars over the years. So much for looking out for the injured employee.
I was married with three kids at the time of my injury. My wife also a deputy, had been off on a maternity leave after our daughter was born when cancer was discovered. When she went to return to work the county refused to take her back because she had been treated for the cancer. So, I found myself unemployed, other employers afraid to hire me and me with a broken jaw, 4 partially crushed vertebras in my neck, one mid-back and a displaced hip. I didn’t mention a life of fighting for the workmen comp, court ordered medical care.
With our family obligations we could not afford health insurance. For many years we had no health coverage and then around 1985 the county made an offer that retiree’s were given a one time opportunity to put their spouse on the health plan. We couldn’t afford the health plan but couldn’t afford not to have a plan for our retirement years. Over the last ten years the monthly premiums have gone from $375.00 to nearly $1170.00 per month. The county passed the cost over to the retirees. 2001 I was audited on my taxes because of my excessive claims for health insurance premiums. Seems I was claiming three times the national average. Of course, I was paying that amount to Orange County.
I don’t see any discussion about the hundreds of hours I worked in overtime without compensation, nor the times I showed up for work, only to be sent home, because a reserve had to get his volunteer time in. It was an easy job, on a number of occasions I had to get shots because of being bitten or exposed to some disease. I’ve been in more fights than I can remember, often with someone mentally ill or high on one of the many available drugs and their strength ten times mine. I have guns pointed at me somewhere between five to seven times, been involved in a shooting and been sued for millions. My offense in most cases was I was wearing the same uniform. Or had to tell a parent their kid died due to an over dose of drugs, killed in a car accident, blew himself up with a homemade bomb, yep no stress involved. My reward, there are several people alive because of my actions and hopefully we helped some other people. There are times we can’t help, due to laws, policies and a variety of organizations. Stress is an everyday part of the occupation and I recall reading one time in the National Chief of Police magazine that the average officer lives to age 57. I don’t know how they arrived at their number.
I could go on about how the county is trying to take two thirds of my pension away but I’ve learned life is like five card stud, you play the hand your dealt. I would like to see all of you look at the root cause of California’s, Orange County and the rest of the country’s financial ills. We could start by getting excited about being the welfare system for Mexico. We could get excited about all the federal politicians who just granted themselves another pay raise, farming the jobs overseas, sending our money to other countries or we can keep attacking one another.
ocobserver:
I am very aware of how the legal system works. A judge does not interpret the law, they FOLLOW the law. You seem to think that the judges are on the take. This case was transferred to L.A. , to avoid any possible conflict between the county agencies that are sueing each other. What Deputies are serving as baliffs, in the Orange County court rooms? Your problem is you don’t understand that this lawsuit is about contract law, nothing more nothing less. Forget about Moorlach’s violation of the State constitution. It is a bogus argument, and it is going nowhere. These Judges have legal research staffs that have reseacrhed this issue for many months. Every Attorney, except the one that the County is paying, says there is no case.
I would like to nominate ocobserver to run for the BOS!!! Do I have a second? I think he would make a great candidate. Who is up for re-election?
Les, if every judge always got it right there would be no need for appellate courts, would there? So your statement is simply not true. Judges do NOT follow the law all the time. Otherwise NONE of them would get overruled. There are dirty judges just like there are dirty cops. Just because this judge happens to work 1.5 hours north of OC doesn’t mean there’s no conflict of interest. Obviously you don’t know the legal system. Your statements prove that.
I would never get elected to the BOS cuz I’m no politician. I don’t play sides or favorites. And I wouldn’t permit anyone to own me. Doesn’t matter if your a dem, a GOP’er, an independent or a libertarian. What you see is what you get from me. I’d simply look you square in the eye and give you a bolus dose of the truth. That doesn’t work in politics. And you’ve seen what the system has evolved into. One big house of ill repute!
It is just SOOOOOOO past time to REDUCE the Pensions of CURRENT (not just new employees).
Why should the public (via their TAXES) pay for these very rich benefits no one in the Private Sector gets ??
Ed, we remember the bums shuffle you and others got, thus the union. Things are far better now and we are all grateful for what we have and what you did. Though you got little reward from the county, you left behind a great reputation. You are still remembered among us old fudds. Hope you and family are well.
ocobserver:
You are right, the Judges don’t “follow” the law sometimes. That is what the Appellate courts are for. The BOS can appeal this case all the way to the State Supreme Court. Your position, that a Judge can “interpret” a law as they see fit, is absolutely false. Judge Bendix could actually agree with you.,(doubtful) but she has to follow the current law. Where do you think case law comes from? It comes from cases that have been appealed. In addition, a Judge that makes bad decisions can be voted out of office or sanctioned by the Judicial Review board. Your position that most public employees are 1) crooked and 2) trough feeders, is getting tiresome. I’ll bet you’ve never been in a court room. I certainly wouldn’t put you on a jury, with an attitude like yours.
I’m beginning to think ocobserver and JohnnyVegas are both really Steve Rocco. He is as delusional and irrartional as they are.
LES said this on 4-5 @ 4:22pm:
“A judge does not interpret the law, they FOLLOW the law”
Then LES said this on 4-6 @ 9:08am:
“You are right, the Judges don’t “follow” the law sometimes”
So which is it, LES? And why should we believe you? Make up your mind.
Go to the library and check out a couple books to read.
Not again! Says:
April 3rd, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Wait until you find out the OCSD will be releasing inmates early because of budget problems and the money used for this lawsuit could have been used to those keep inmates in jail.
===========================
Yeah, and lets not forget that the $500 MILLION! the welfare queens atole from honest hard working taxpayers could have doubled the OCSD AND kept inmates in jail.
BOOM!
caseclosed Says:
April 4th, 2009 at 6:46 am
In this economy the deputy sheriffs are being greedy and could care less about the tax parers of Orange County. They should be happy there working and that they can retire at 50 when most of the people in Orange County are working way past 65 unless they go back to Mexico to retire. They get a lot of money for standing in a court room saying please be seated.
=====================
AMEN BROTHER! Amen!
Those little greedy GED educated cops are really nothing more than common crooks, stealing from the poor and middle class to fund their $3 million dollar lottery “pension” .
OC Taxpayer Says:
April 4th, 2009 at 7:28 am
Go BOS GO!
By any means necessary we need to turn this ridiculous pension system around. If sherrifs, firefighters , judges, teachers and all our other government employees really have the best interests of the people they supposedly serve in mind, they will give up these lavish pensions plans which are simply legitimized theft of private sector funds.
When most of the people they serve in the private sector have had their retirement savings decimated, what makes our public servants think we in the private sector can or should be making up the losses in their equally decimated reitrement plans.
===========================
Great post OC Taxpayer, great post.!!!!!!!!
My family, Jane survied a second bout of cancer, Orange County medical plan refused to pay over fifty percent of the expenses. All three of my kids are not on welfare, prison and work, although one gets laid off from time to time. My one son graduated from the Air Force Academy and two of my kids have their master degrees. One has a GED that one contributor speaks of. By the way, here again many comments and not having the facts. We didn’t have GED’s we were “pushed” to get our “AA” degrees and Bacholor’s. I don’t know what they require today.
Ed, the average cop makes a better overall compensation package than a general practice medical doctor with 10 years of cut throat higher education and over $150k in student loans to pay off at the end of his/her training. Any way you look at it, that’s plain wrong. You folks are overpaid. The sooner you admit that the sooner you will gain credibility from us. Not a day sooner.
I can’t admit I’m over paid, as my earlier post states I’m in an older pension system and don’t know anything about the pension system you folks are talking about. However, again refering to my earlier post, this whole country is in financial trouble and we could take steps to correct it. 1) Stop being the welfare system for Mexico. 2) Congress stop giving themselves pay raises and pass a law or take steps to cut everyones income by 10 percent, period. Give the jobs to the American people instead of sending them overseas would all help to get the financial engine in gear.
By the way one person posted something about a 5,000 square foot house. MIne is 1700 square feet and not paid for. I do have a nice view though.
Ed Gould Says:
April 6th, 2009 at 11:48 am
My family, Jane survied a second bout of cancer, Orange County medical plan refused to pay over fifty percent of the expenses. All three of my kids are not on welfare, prison and work, although one gets laid off from time to time. My one son graduated from the Air Force Academy and two of my kids have their master degrees.
========================
yeah, when you can milk the taxpayers for millions life is much better- you dont need welfare or other work , and life is much better for the kids too.
BTW, no cop is “pushed” to get any type of degree, if they get one it is AFTER hire, and on the taxpayers expense, and very few cops have degrees even with that huge incentive.
Ed, are you serious? You don’t know anything about the current public safety pension system? Do you read the news? Is this the first time you’ve ever visited the OCR website. This topic is discussed continuously. Let me clue you in….a cop or firefighter gets 3%@50 which amounts to 90-100% of their last paycheck at the age of 50 for the rest of their natural lives. Like I said, their overall compensation package is better than that of a general practice medical doctor. You think that is fair? Please, don’t dodge the question. That is the reason few of us trust you guys. You don’t give us direct answers for those tough questions. You dance around them. That makes us believe you don’t come clean on the other topics either. It’s all about the home team, isn’t it? Basic greed.
Ed, don’t listen to the drama llamas.
You got a raw deal, and that sucks, especially considering that you were injured in the line of duty. But this pension is overly extravagant. However, it is a no win case in court.
I think there needs to be a different plan for officers on high risk duty versus the guys who sit and play Freecell in the county offices. That would certainly be more fair.
Scare tactics by politicians to get what they want….sound familiar? The Orange County Retirement System has gone from 4.5 Billion in assets to 7 Billion in the last 4 years. Feds say it can’t be a profit making corp. That’s why all county employees got a better system. It wasn’t until Moorlach needed to look like a Jarvis type that this issue came up. By the way, he did the same thing at the bankrupty when he was looking for a county job and worked for him them too. Even, though Bob Citron was right and had the county stayed fast, they would have been better off two years later. In two years, just like prop 13 and the 1994 BK, everything will be back to normal with the BOS giving themselves good raises and spending like crazy again.
There are a lot of preconceived notions but the first one is no, I don’t know anything about the 50@3 percent. I retired in 1973 under a totally different system. Yep, I’m old. 2nd I don’t watch, read or keep up with Orange County news as I live very near Canada. I looked on the web for information about the threatened cuts in my pension as Orange County has been very quite. I don’t live in Orange County because I can’t afford to and I don’t want to. To many people, too much traffic and way too much smog. I have enough health issues without adding can’t breathe.
The one person seems to want to argue, I don’t know any of you well enough to argue with you, or have any desire to. I can agree with some of John’s comment (speaking for myself) I had a poor education don’t know if that was due to living in five different foster homes or from working in the bean fields in Compton or cleaning mortar mix off of bricks in Long Beach, John implies we have silver spoons and that my kids had a better route in life than he did. He’s right, like any decent parent I didn’t want my kids to have the same life I did. Maybe I got the silver spoon when I was drafted during Vietnam. There seems to be a lot of emphasize on higher education in these post. Aren’t the higher educated guys the ones that got this country in the financial mess we’re in? My kids were exposed to life and had to learn as well and I got them jobs hauling 90 pound bags of concrete mix and cider blocks up the side of a building. Their job was to choose how they wanted to earn a living. They did.
But I did enter law enforcement with 9 credits short of an “AA” degree. I did choose that field probably because of an incident I saw earlier in life. We were pushed to get degrees, if we had any hope of promotion. Someone said the deputies all have GED’s, I don’t know what crystal ball he’s using but then I don’t know what’s required today. I do know what education I had and achieved, I never took a survey or questioned my partners as to their education. I do know one of the guys I trained got into the car on the first day and I learned he had gone to West Point. But that’s only one guy and I never knew why he was in a patrol car rather than the Army.
Everything is a learning experience folks. being drafted taught me I’m damm glad I was born in this country. I saw enough of the far east to come up with that conclusion.
More fair, I gave up on thingsd being fair long time ago. If your all going to go through life waiting for things to be fair your wasting your life and your talents. We’re all going to end up in that wheelchair with someone feeding us. Say, maybe that’s when I get my silver spoon.
Ed, your pension is safe so far, the board is after the enhancements agreed to in 2001. Worst that can happen, we’ll go back to what you have. Welcome to the world of OCR blogs about law enforcement, fire or employee issues. A couple people here will call you anything but an adult and accuse you of everything evil, all because of their deep-seated resentment of anyone who ever served, police, fire or military. To them we are all low-lifes stealing their daily bread. The sadness is they seem to have nothing good to say about any alternative careers or endeavors, no other life but agonizing over your retirement and how rich you are at their expense. I was a newbie in ‘73, working an adjacent area with Carl and Bill, thanks for the 960s and God Bless !
posted (a first for me) because I thought it might help people understand why a union was formed. As the one post states it’s unfair that deputies make more than doctors. I wonder if any of them remember that garbage men in San Fransico made more than the firemen and police. I don’t know what it is today. I’m sure the garbage guys felt they deserved it.
Pension safe. I hope you are right. We received notification that the Board is going after our pensions. If, they can pull off what they are trying to I would loose 2/3′rd of my pension. The information came from an official Orange County publication so it’s not a rumor.
Ed. got news for you, old timer. as soon as the bond market dislocates (crashes) all the pensions, public and private, go bye-bye, as well as most of the safety net programs like medicare and social security. the system as it stands today is unsustainable. the debt to GDP ratio in this country, at last glace, was at about 380%. and the more the corporate execs and our government lies to us the worse it will get. But good luck to ya. We all wish you and the ones who take our taxpayer money the best!
You may be correct. The difference is I have my tent and sleeping bags. I have elk, moose and deer to survive off of. You guys have? I have another thing going for me. At my age I could develop Alzheimer’s and won’t know the difference.
Ed Gould says:
April 8, 2009 at 11:16 amYou may be correct. The difference is I have my tent and sleeping bags. I have elk, moose and deer to survive off of. You guys have?
=======================
Ed, if worse comes to worse, Im moving in with an over paid, over paid gov employeed welfare queen and sleeping on their couch!
Ed, I have no beef with perople like you at all. You and anyone else who retired before 1999 is not the problem.
This problem scam started in 1999 with a greedy CP literally buying the 3%@50 pension scam from Gray Davis. Then every single other FF and cop in this state went “me too”.
Next thing you know we’re in the hole billions-everyone is, everywhere-not just in OC or San Diego. Everywhere.
The taxpayers do NOT have an obligation to make gov empolyees millionaires.
Boom!
I just got back from Canada visiting family for Easter and it gave me time to think about all the education comments. One in particular asking was it fair for law enforcement officer to make more than doctors. I have had in life two friends that were medical doctors and both lived much better than I did (I assume they made much more but maybe they came from wealthy families or married money) But, if we just use the example, is that fair that deputies (according to one post) make more than doctors based on education then it seems we need to take a few more steps. Is it fair, that a guy who can get a basket ball through a hoop makes far more than a doctor, an educator or the President? Is it fair that a young man, that doesn’t finish high school becomes wealthy by selling dope at the expense of all the lives his actions destroy. The list could go on but it’s clear you have to define the job and establish the salary for that job. If no one applies than you have to raise the bar.
I’m not a sports fan for the most part but have seen many athletes who can’t speak correctly, complete a sentence and treat their spouse or girlfriend as sub-human. Most completed college but didn’t learn anything it was all done for them. Yet, they make far more money and have a great pension system and fully paid health plan. Is that fair? One more step, I’ve seen many very highly educated professors when I was working on my bachelors degree that couldn’t function outside a classroom. They knew the subject they taught but couldn’t carry on a conversation or make it outside the classroom without help. There’s far more to education than the books and a classroom. I would agree the whole compensation thing is messed up.