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State’s gay married couples could multiply even with Prop. 8
March 10th, 2009, 5:12 pm · 62 Comments · posted by Martin Wisckol, Politics reporter
M. Katherine B. Darmer, a Chapman School of Law professor, agrees with conventional wisdom that the state Supreme Court appears poised to uphold the Proposition 8 gay marriage ban. And like others, she reads the line of questioning from justices on March 5 as indicating that they will also preserve the gay marriages performed prior to the November vote approving the initiative.
“The questions don’t always predict the outcome, but they often do,” said Darmer, who campaigned against Prop. 8.
Meanwhile, there’s another source of gay marriages that the justices didn’t ask about, but which will arise if Prop. 8 and existing gay marriages are both upheld.
Will those performed in Massachusetts, Connecticut, and abroad be recognized if the couples move to California? (Canada, Belgium, Spain, Netherlands, Norway and South Africa all perform gay marriages).
Darmer thinks you can forget about any gay marriages performed out-of-state after the Nov. 4 election here.
“There’s no argument to be made,” she said. That would rule out Connecticut, which began performing gay marriages Nov. 12.
However, a good argument could be made that those married elsewhere between June 16 and Nov. 4 – when gay marriages were performed in California – should be recognized if those couples move here, she said.
And Darmer thinks an argument could also be made, although not quite as easily, that gays married prior to June 16 should have their marriages recognized in California. Since the May state Supreme Court ruling found that, at that time, a ban on gay marriages was in conflict with the state constitution, gay marriages performed elsewhere prior to June 16 should be recognized here, she said.
But nothing is certain, except that there will be more lawsuits and more ballot measures. And Darmer things gay marriage will ultimately prevail because younger generations are more accepting of the idea.
“The likely resolution will be a political solution, that there will be ballot measure from gay marriage activists in 2010 or 2012,” she said.
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State Supreme Court hears Prop. 8 arguments
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Experts cite legal precedence for Prop. 8 intervention
Prop. 8 strategy could backfire, says backer and legal expert
Gays would lose few legal rights with marriage ban
Lawsuit to overturn Prop. 8 may face uphill battle
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DENA BUNIS, Washington bureau chief, 202-628-6381 or dbunis@ocregister.com
BRIAN JOSEPH, Sacramento correspondent, 916-449-6046 or bjoseph@ocregister.com
JENNIFER MUIR, County government reporter, 714-796-7813 or jmuir@ocregister.com
JOEL WALSH, Washington bureau intern, 202-628-6381 or jwalsh@ocregister.com
MARTIN WISCKOL, Politics reporter, 714-285-2867 or mwisckol@ocregister.com twitter.com/MartinWisckol
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You Heteros are getting RIDICULOUS with this issue.
The only thing marriage needs protection from is the HETEROSEXUAL.
And just why wouldn’t we welcome them here?
Nothing’s going multiply. that’s a good thing in these cases.
out
This is not true, gays cannot multiply
but they can be fruitful
And the justices will wait the full 90 days before making their decisions is my bet.
Oh chris let me enlighten you again, you “people” would love it to be able to walk into a church mine included and tell the pastor you want to get married you and your “guy lover” when the pastor of that church says he wont marry you because of what the bible teaches,then you and your lover file a lawsuit against that church for not marrying you..see how this works,then most pastor will not perform any weddings to be safe.this is all in your plan of the gays with the No on 8… this is why the church stood up..there should be a clause if the ever goes into effect that states,any church has the right to deny you a marraige if it feels it affects there values and beleives.no ands if’s or butts,you will always find a so called liberal church to marry you.just leave us ” true beleivers” alone and our churches and pastors..this is the plan you guys dont talk about.but we are wise to…
JP, that is the largest load of crap I’ve read since . . . well, I can’t think of how long. No one is forcing, or going to force, a religion to violate its vtenets. If an orthodox jewish rebbi won’t marry a congregation member to a goyim, that’s his business. Some religions will perform gay weddings, others won’t. Fine. The issue is the recognition of those unions by the secular government.
Folks like you like to cite to a case in NJ in which a gay couple sued when a church refused to rent its beachfront wedding facility to them for a ceremony. The problem there is that the church in question offered that facility to everyone - not just its congregants. It was, in other words, a public facility. A church can be, for example, racist (as the LDS was until the 70s) and be OK under the antidiscimination laws, but that doesn’t mean that church can exclude blacks from a restuarant it operates for the public at large.
Your tone identifies you very well, thanks. I’m sorry for you.
jp muley,
you’ve drunk the koolaid. No church has to perform any ceremony or admit anyone as members that it doesn’t want to. The right to marry has nothing to do with your precious church. It has everything to do with civil rights.
I think if Prop 8 is upheld that more gay people should file suit because how is it fair that only certain gay people can be married while others can not. Separate and not equal even within a protected/minority class is insane.
Muley…..wow, do you really think this? My partner and I got married at the hall of records and went home. I think most people want to only get married where they are openly accepted. That sounds really paranoid and unsubstantiated to think gay couples want to “force” a non-accepting church to marry them. But hey, if you want to write a protection for you “true believers” I’d be all for it!
I have to ask though, where do you get all this secret gay agenda information? Do you dress up like a gay person and attend our gay agenda meetings where we plot how to unleash untold chaos upon religion and society in general?
For anyone interested we meet Tues evenings at 8pm, at the international hall of justice. Come one, come all
bkkroeli, No we are wise as serpents,and you guys would love to catch us with our pants down (no punt) we are wise to the tricks you guys pull the sore loser you are..dont even say that you people wouldnt try that for the $$$$$$.come on..all is fair when money is involved to pay out..no im old school i like women as tone loke said,i have no plans with a man’ this is the 80’s i love the ladies..sorry dude
J.P.—-You and others who think like you will soon be seen as dinosaurs with a neanderthal approach to this issue fueled by fear,ignorance and paranoia.You hide behind your bible to try and justify your bigotry.You should be ashamed of yourself.
That’s a load of bull crap. Gays aren’t going to go into a church and demand to be married!!! Most likely they will be going to a gay friendly church to get married. Why would they want to marry somewhere where there’s a bunch a gayhaters??!!!??
You religious freaks think EVERYONE is out to get you. Watch for the government, too because they keep tabs on you and know what you’re thinking. GET A LIFE!!!
They only want the same rights as anyone else does!!!!
sad that the majority was able to vote down the minority in this sad election ballot measure.
J.P.—Try to spell your words correctly at least.
Why do they keep calling the Nancy boys and Johnny girls gay when fruitcake’s is alot better fit??????
i dont like gays
Your Here,
Your Q Ueer ,
You just can’t be like us : )
rlh , dont feel sorry for me im normal,i know who to sleep with..sleeping next to a guy in boxers or thong is not for me sorry not normal so dont waste your time trying to tell me im the one sick, even the animals sleep with the opposite sex.dah, i like to hold the ladies hands not some billy bobs, come on can i get some straight dude out there who likes the ladies also.and not scared to stand up and say it..what ever blows you fruits dress up is fine just keep it to yourself.
jp muley
You clearly demonstrate the bigotry that inspired Prop 8 and the hateful attitude that has fueled discrimination of one kind or another throughout the ages. Fortunately attitudes such as yours are on the decline and the time will come when such discrimination will be the exception.
And no, I’m not gay, nor am I a Democrat. I’m just a reasonable, rational human being. Yes, I know, these are all unfamiliar terms.
Maryjane- that’s nice.
Caseclosed,maryjane and adolph—-Collectively, your I.Q. might hit 100.
Caseclosed,
There’s more than enough a**holes like you throwing those terms around. The rest of us will stick to intelligent conversation.
mensario! LMAO
the monkeys must be on their lunch breaks
How can anyone take what JP Muley says seriously? He sounds like one of those uneducated weirdos on dating websites…ladies you know what I am talkin about…
John G. just go with the flow..follow them right to the pit.john G. its all good thats how you live? sorry i call a spade a spade..we need the old days of tar and feathers..
AJ does that stand for another jackass? sorry dude married 30 yrs rare these days..
Land of the fruits and nuts! Look where this state is at now…….The Liberals have f’d this state, “period”
J.P.—Did you finish high school?
J.P.—Do you have her locked up in the basement to prevent escape?Poor thing.
well Mulley, when you pull out Tone Loc, that genious, what can I say. I got nowhere to go, I’m boxed in a corner by his brilliance.
BTW, that WAS the ’80’s. Hate to break it to ya Skippy, two whole decades have passed since then. And why are you trying to prove so hard that you are straight? I don’t recall anyone on here questioning that.
bkkroeli—Good point.I was beginning to wonder about that myself…..probably a self-loathing closet case a la “American Beauty”(hide the gun.)
For once and for all: gay people are born of heterosexual parents! The gay population is not dependent upon pro-creation from within to exist. Just how stupid can people be?
And for the henny-penny conserva-tizzies that scream, What next!?! Marriage between adults and children, animals, sibling?
NEWSFLASH-
Pedophilia: illegal
Beastiality: illegal
Incest: illegal
Homosexuality: NOT ILLEGAL
And for the Prop 8 nimrods who cry, Religious Freedom! Religious Freedom! What about the religious freedom of churches that were against Prop 8?!? Oh. Just YOUR religious freedom.
Thank you, Deshard. I am not illegal. Illegal immigrants are illegal.
=]
My parents produced 2 gay kids and 1 straight. And the 2 gays can reproduce straights. WOW what a concept.
What I don’t get is why waste all the money whether its for or against proposition only to be a sore loser and still fight to get their way. Some of the issues raised before the justices should have been considered or addressed before putting it on the ballot. Stop wasting time and money!
Losing RIGHTS is not being SORE LOSERS.
Do people not realize that VOTERS are allowed to take away people that are now LEGALLY my family???
Not like, deport them, but INVALIDATE MY FAMILY.
Please explain the justification for ANYONE being allowed to invalidate families.
The true sore losers are the people who continually try to retain the power and exclude it from others.
Prop. 8 should have never been allowed to be put to a vote.
Gays won’t be good losers because they take the lessons of other groups who historically fought the fight to gain their long denied civil rights .this will not go away.Prop 8 was just a battle in a long war.
no brainer, Prop 8 already decided, uphold it and move on
Luke—NO!
Sweet a new gay blog…
gay = happy
queer = strange
fag = Euro slang for cig
BTW, DOMA says no state has to ack gay marriage performed in another place.
I hope the gay guys and gals will get their thongs unbunched with the ruling from the courts. My kids try to get their way by whinning, kicking and screaming, and generally throwing tandrums. My wife and I just ignore them and they settle down when they realize we won’t bend. Now the court will bend over (now don’t get excited about that gay guys and gals) and just let the gays get their way. Good, now maybe they will just SHUT UP! Just go and do your gay thing but leave us heteros alone OK?
The SCOTUS could invalidate DOMA with a future ruling allowing same-sex marriage.The S.C. is the ultimate authority unless an amendment to the U.S. Constitution is passed banning gay marriage.
Patriot-
wow. such original jokes.
Now why don’t you shut up and do your hetero thing and leave us gays alone.
Dear Ms swooningmoon,
I do and I am on your side here not literally mind you.
In what parallel universe would you be on the gays’ side after your snide remarks?
Patriot,
thanks????
dear mr or ms mensarino,
just live your life the way you want to with your other homos
It is Mr. and although I am straight, I would infinitely prefer their company to yours.
Patriot,
you do NOT have a way with words.
Ouch! Now I am going to loose sleep over that
If it is upheld or not, I really don’t care. Sorry….in my opinion, it doesn’t matter what ANY of us think, believe, or protest for. This whole matter is in the hands of the courts and nothing can be done about it til they decide.
People can banter back and forth, call out names, get ugly, hide behind the first amendment, etc. etc. but does it really matter while the courts have this issue in their hands?
They are not out the window looking at who is protesting the most…..they really don’t care about that! They are trying to weigh the hands of justice.
So let’s concentrate on getting the economy back on track eh?
just an opinion……..
May I say that I have friends who practice homosexuality. They are fine people. I think they should have all the rights of anyone including married men and women. I think they should work for legislation that guarantees them those rights, - - but not under the rubrick of marriage.
For centuries, marriage has been understood as between a one man and one woman; that was not called discrimination, nor should it be so called now. God loves “them” just as much as “us.” He sent his Son, Jesus, to pay the penalty for all our sins, and offer salvation to all of us. Keep the focus on the important/ eternal issues.
Passingbuck—-If your rubric includes all rights,state and federal, that would be fine with me but not everyone believes in jesus or any god for that matter so no need to bring religion into this.
I’ll bet you didn’t know Lincoln wrote about thing like bigotry and how it can even apply to issues like this gay marriages of today.
In Aug 1864 President Lincoln received a letter from an Angry citizen that had written: “I hope You will be kind enough to pay attention, White men is in class number one & Black men in class number two & must be governed by white men forever”
We know that now with Obama as President, that was old bigoted thinking and is not true.
Lincoln drafted a tongue-in-cheek reply and sent out over the signature of his secretary, John G. Niclay.
I will use President Lincoln’s words, changing ONLY 4 WORDS to make the 144 year old letter VERY current and up to date on this issue of Gay Marriage… it is MY Response to ALL of you, who have yelled “Gays are bad, can’t or shouldn’t marry, and they should take a back seat to Heterosexual Marriage is number 1 and gay marriage is number 2 (AKA domestic Partnerships)”.
Washington D.C. Aug 6. 1864
The President has received yours of yesterday, and is kindly paying attention to it. As it is my business to assist him whenever I can, I will thank you to inform me, for his use, whether you are either a heterosexual (Changed From white) man or a gay (G.F. black) man, because in either case, you can not be regarded as an entirely impartial judge. It may be that you belong to a third or forth class of Bisexual (C.F. yellow) or Trans-gender (C.F. red) men, in which case the impartiality of your judgment would be more apparent.
From LINCOLN ON DEMOCRACY page 327 BY Mario M. Cuomo and Harold Holzer.
Please read up on your History before You and Others throw it all away. Today, discrimination of the gays… Tomorrow, discrimination just might be YOU. I mean You never know, especially if you are:
a Woman, Jewish, Hispanic, Black, Foreign born, Catholic, handicapped, mentally challenged, AND a never ending ETCs.
I appollogize for the typo on (G.F. black) man.
it should read (C.F. back) man…
which obviously means Changed from
I like how everyone who’s for the passing of Prop 8. is treating this like it’s a basketball game.
“WE WON! GET OVER IT! DON’T BE SUCH A SORE LOSER!”
It’s so much more than winning or losing something. It’s about people’s rights literally being taken away because “the people have spoken”.
Megan,
The gay guys and gals only want rights for them, not anyone else. Their perverted agenda is to shove thier gay practices down our collective throats. Look at their behavoir and dress at their gay pride parades. A decent family cannot go to D-land during the gay day there. The gay gays and gals want “the gay people have spoken”. We can only hope that they will “unbreed” themselves out of existence.
Let’s all go El Coyote Restraunt in LA and show themwho the people are. We go there alot now to support the owner who is being intimadated by the gay agenda. The absurd thing is that El Coyote has gay employees. Now that is tolerance when they even want their gay guys and gals bedfellows out of a job.
Oh ok. So they want to be the only ones allowed to be married and recognized by the state? They don’t want heteros to be married in their churches or their children to learn about straight marriages? Hmm…
Oh, yay! Another page of comments that proves that homophobes aren’t very bright. What a shock!
Patriot (the Hetro’d Homophobic) Says:
“The gay guys and gals only want rights for them, not anyone else. Their perverted agenda is to shove their gay practices down our collective throats. Look at their behavior and dress at their gay pride parades. A decent family cannot go to D-land during the gay day there. We can only hope that they will â��unbreedâ�� themselves out of existence.”
What “only” rights for ourselves are you ranting about Patriot?
I know I want the Rights to life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness…
That includes marriage, non-discrimination and a peaceful existence with people who would like to see me dead, such as yourself.
Is that anything “Special”? I think it isn’t, in fact, I think everyone wants those same rights. Most Gay families are very decent… the your so-called “outrageous ones in the Parades” that you point to make up only about 1% of those total parades (what a shock, you think the news stations is going to show you the “normal” uncontroversial parts of the parade? That just wouldn’t be news then… would it?) and even less controversial people are the majority in gay society at large…
You taking the “parade” as the “gay norm”… would be like me comparing your “straight society” to the Straight Porn Movie Awards, I saw on the TV news, and then trying to call them the Norm abouit YOUR family orientied Church going Christain / Morman Poligamist “Oscar” type society. Would that be a right thing to do?
But then again, I guess Hetros can be pretty perverted too…
After all, 9 out of 10 child moslesters are Hertros and 9 out of 10 of those crimes are done by “family” members. Geez, Facts sure can get in the way of your bigotry, huh?
As for Breeding “gays” out of existance? You’d have to stop the births of all babies, my dear King Herod… because “gay” is genetic and is pretty much a factor of “Hetrosexual breeding” in all the previous years of human existance. Just as ONLY Rapists, Murders and Christains were born of Heterosexual breeding “program” in the past too.