Republicans were far more supportive of Proposition 8, the gay-marriage ban, than Democrats - but that doesn’t mean gay Republicans don’t favor marriage. The Log Cabin Republicans, the nation’s largest gay GOP group, opposed Prop. 8 and is supporting lawsuits to have it overturned, according to Frank Ricchiazzi.
The Laguna Beach resident, who helped found the the Log Cabin club in the late 1970s, has a interesting take on Prop. 8 and the lawsuit - particularly since he thought it was a little early for gay marriage when the state Supreme Court gave it the green light in May.
“It was like a steak on the grill - it was still a little bit raw and needed more time,” he said of gay marriage. But a younger generation disagreed with him. “Others were ready to put it on the plate.”
But since thousands in the state have been married, he says it’s ridiculous to try to undo the law.
“The dams have been opened, the water has passed through,” said Ricchiazzi. “And now they want to bring it back? … How can you tell 1,000s of people who have gotten married that you’re going to take it back?”
Ricchiazzi has been with his partner 22 years, but said they were holding off on getting marriage to see how everything shook out.
Proposition 22, passed by 23 percent of voters in 2000, declared that marriage could be only between a man and a woman. That’s the measure the Supreme Court ruled was unconstitutional earlier this year. Prop. 8, meanwhile, is winning by 4.5 percent of the vote. Ricchiazzi is among those of point to the results of the two measures as an indicator of the trend toward widespread acceptance of gay marriage.
And while Ricchiazzi was prepared to wait for that to happen, events have swept him along into the anti-Prop. 8 camp.
There’s a hint of disgust in his voice after I pointed out that Republicans were much more supportive of Prop. 8 than Democrats.
“When I came to Laguna Beach in 1988, 50 percent of voters here were Republican and 37 percent were Democrat,” he said of his gay-friendly city. “Democrats have gained in every election since, and now there’s more Democrats than Republicans. The gay population here has said, ‘I can’t be part of the Republican Party any longer.’ ”
The reason is largely, he says, because of the party’s position on gay rights. I asked if he would be leaving the party too.
“Where would I go?” said the investor. “You look at the Democrats on foriegn policy and economic policy, and it’s just awful. Granted, George Bush was a Democrat in terms of the economy and the budget….”
OMG
March through Irvine tomorrow against Prop 8.
Culver and Campus
Time to burn the Orange Curtain, baby!
According to the investigation from the site *BiLoves dotcom* (a site for LGBT comning out, explore sexuality, etc.), The Netherlands, South Africa, United Kingdom, Canada, Spain are the gayest countries. Not sure if true.I just know that site is very professional and there are about 100 members per day and they are very active. You can imagine.If you come here frequently, you may find what you are looking easily and quickly.
They need to put a limit on the numbers of words you can post what j Says:is a joke he just posted a book. I can say it in 5 words “”I voted yes on eight.”"
Is the left going to RESPECT my voting rights. Prop 8 passed.
Are there women’s restrooms at the Log Cabin Club? Are there Republican Lesbians? Do we care? YES on 8. Get over it!
In a Democracy majority rules. If the courts overturn the will of the people again there will be a much larger issue than gay marraige.
I am appalled by the response of the No on 8 crowd. They ambushed my church home last weekend and the things they were shouting were most offensive. As a citizen of the United States I have a right to my political opinion, to vote on issues brought before the voting public and not be expected to be harrassed for my views by a minority of people. In a civilized society, that is how things work.
The protestors I saw (who numbered 75 - 100….not “hundreds as reported by the OCR) made no sense in their arguments and displayed themselves as the hateful people they supposedoly campaign against. But I do know one thing, God loves them as much as He loves me and that we are all a part of the family of God. So I pray that God will help them to open their eyes and convict them for the bad behavior that they exhibited and that they apologize to those they have offended.
State rights in California extend to all people here not just heterosexuals. People in California cannot vote away rights of other people. Civil marriage offers over 1,000 rights, obligations and protections in the State of California. Prop. 8 will be overturned as unconstitutional there is no doubt about it.
I could go either way with Prop 8, but I define marriage between a man and woman, but I too am appalled at the lack of civility and acceptance of this outcome by those who lost. It confirms why this issue should be left to the ballot box and not the courts or legislature, just think of the terrorism that would take place to influence the scared judges and state representatives. Appalling for those who are whining that don’t get their way. Boo hoo.
Look at it this way. Im straight, ok. I Don’t care what gay people do or how they do it. Put all the rights you want as a gay couple on the ballot and I will vote for it. That is if you don’t already have those rights.
Just don’t call what is is you want to do a marriage. Of all the things in the world you could call it, why does it have to be called a marriage. Be inventive,use some imagination and call it some else. Invent a whole new ritual that is different and truly your own. Don’ t usurp what is someone elses. A ceremony that you create can be just as beautiful and moving as the marriage ceremony, and more meaningful because it is yours.
Sacramento theater director who donated to Prop. 8 faced storm of criticism
Scott Eckern, the Sacramento theater director whose political donation in support of California’s Prop. 8 ban on same-sex marriage has become a lightning rod in the debate over gay rights, resigned today.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2008/11/here-is-an-exce.html
Follow the donors: Check who in your area supported H8 and let them know how you feel:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-metro-prop-8,0,2463893.htmlstory
Just input your zip code
The link to the Black and Latino Churches who supported H8. Isn’t odd that blacks and latinos would support discrimination? Let them know how you feel:
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=ind_focus.story&STORY=/www/story/10-22-2008/0004909747&EDATE=WED+Oct+22+2008,+07:11+PM
To the voter of california who voted yes on 8, take notice of all the gop’s and everyone else in school boards, Administrations, the house etc. Proposition 8 was voted in twice..it is over! Morality wins. This isn’t about civil rights…this is about decentcy. We must hold all these politians and administrators accountable. Stop the illegal protests, send them home. Who made this morally right? If you want to live your livestyle in the gasy world so be it, but we do not have to acceot something that immoral. Why do they think society has to accept their way of life? It is not right the people have spoken…say good night!
The proper way to live….women and man!
thats hella gay
Yes I think these protesters should march through Inglewood and the Rampart District and tell those Black and Latino church goers just what you think. Boy I hope that gets caught on camera
Discrimination? Please explain? You have the same rights that every other American has. Marraige has been defined for more than 5,000 years as one man and one woman. Afterall, only in a hetrosexual relationship can you procreate. Redefining marraige would be like saying blue is no longer blue, just the “traditional blue”. Are you really kidding me?
The courts that redefine marraige are acting outside of their authority and should be help accountable by the people. So, this is not a civil rights issue, don’t be confused by those who seek to deceive you. If we allow same sex marraiges, how long before we allow adults to marry children? Afterall, pedophiles claim that they were born that way. Sound familiar?
P.S. Message to Warren. Thanks for posting the links to the donors in support of Prop 8. I will be sending them a letter expressing my gratitude for standing up and doing the right thing!!!!
Did note California’s people make it clear that marriage is between a man and a woman. These people that support no on 8 or a bunch of whiners. Gays and lesbians can still be together the only thing is that can benefit from marriage and plus based on biblical teachings it states that homsexuality is wrong in the eyes of the Lord so these people that voted no on 8 should get over it…California spoke loud and clear
Warren, why don’t you poop bomb or egg those who supported Prop 8? That will win the war of ideas and get people behind your cause. Talk about intolerance for those who don’t agree with your side of the argument. Very frightening and sad. Why do you hate democracy and people standing up for what they believe in?
I think this will be the new Roe Vs Wade. What is shocking is that California pretty much split the vote which is alarming….it simply means the attitudes of people in this state or becoming increasingly more accepting of same sex union. Let my previous comment not be construed as bashing gays and lesbians some of my friends engage in that behavior. I support this sect of our nation but can’t we make some sort of compromise on this issue. As for the side of church I think those same sex people seeking marriage should respect the teachings of the bible. We elected an African American President so it is clear that America is becoming more progressive. As for the Constitution it says that church and state should be seperate so again these people should not inflict there choice on God-fearing people is not that the same thing the vote no 8 people tring to do by having it overturned?
I am tired of someone telling me what really wanted or what I really
meant. Prop 8 passed, get over it! The people spoke. I think the supreme court should decide everything. I think just because I wanted McCain instead of Obama we should file a lawsuit and let the supreme court decide who the american people really wanted for president. As a latino man, quit trying to draw the paralell between driscrimination and homosexuality. You can’t choose to be born black, brown, yellow, etc. Homosexuality is a choice. I know the gay community will try to say otherwise, but fact is fact. On another note, do you honestly think your disruptive protests is helping you cause, think again. You ar ejust proving the haters point. If you disagree with the passing of prop 8, put another bill on the ballot it and let the people speak. The problem is the gay community don’t like what the people are saying.
Same sex marriage should be BAN. And it was BAN. That’s it!
Why American have to spend to much time and energy on this issue? There are no countries in this world allowed same sex marriage. Why we have to do something STRANGE?
Gay or Lesbian can live with their partners in anyway they want. Why have to legalize it? why? why? and why?
Contrary to popular belief marriage is not a human, civil or constitutional right. And unlike minority groups such as blacks, Hispanics, Asians or women, gay couples are not considered a race of people or a gender.
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 discrimination laws protect against discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex or national origin. Sex includes pregnancy, childbirth or related medical conditions. It says nothing about sexual orientation.
If gay couples marriages are to be recognized in this country, sexual orientation will be need to be added to the Civil Rights Act or the definition of what sex/gender will need to be changed to include “gender netural” or homosexual as a gender.
If the court overturns eight, it will basically say those people that voted yes on 8 including me actually would be thrown out. Is that demcracy where the will of the people is basically overthrown by a group of vocal supporters of no on 8. It reminds me of Pontius Pilot who had a choice whether or not to crucify Jesus, but by a vocal group they put an innocent man to death. What the No on 8 people should do is put it back on the ballot in a future election.
What’s really dumb is you ask a 3-year old “What is marriage?” You get “mommy and daddy” with a “duh” look. So how come great big adults can’t figure that thing out way after they have grown up? It’s mommy and daddy. Not daddy and daddy’s best special friend, not mommy and mommy’s strange new best friend. “Duh”!!
YES on Prop 8
The only reason that the gay agenda is so aggressively pushing for legalized gay marriage is to attempt to legitimize a sinful lifestyle through legal terms, bypassing morality and God. Basically, since they cant argue against God, they’re trying to make themselves God and dictate morality. Satan tried that once, didnt work. It wont work for them either.
you know a i was talking about the election a few days after, as i was discussing the way i disagreed with obama being elected to president. someone told me get over it the majority spoke, like it or not. during that same conversation they started goiing on about prop 8, yet when i said the majority spoke get over it. they went on to plead the case.
can we say hypocrital much?
the way i see it is the left wants equal rights as long as it is in their favor, if not your wrong. only they know what is right. im sick of it!
now saying that obama is our president (or at least will be) just like clinton i will respect and honor my president, because the nation spoke and chose him. now respect the wishes of the majority on this one and lose with some dignity…
I’m really impressed with the bravery and commitment to a just case to those who interrupted church services last Sunday with their over the top antics and bad taste.
Had they been aware that most blacks voted for prop 8, I’m sure these brave protesting crusaders would have immediately embarked to South LA or Watts, into the very bowls of the enemy that thwarted them in their just cause, to confront the wrong thinking evildoers.
Or maybe these morally brave but personal-safety reticent souls knew what fate awaited them had they tried.
Better to stick to places where your actions don’t have to meet with honest consequences. You are so brave. You really are. Really.
protectmarriage.com
I voted yes on 8. We need to protect the family and my kids. I don’t want it pushed in the schools. Based on the attitude of the no 8 crowd they will destroy churches or anyone that doesn’t agree with their opinion. There seems to be no tolerance at all for an opion different that theirs
To all the anti Prop 8 people…………..SCOREBOARD
If you Prop 8 had lost we would have accepted the results but you don’t. Typical liberal gay acitivists who want acceptance and not just tolerance and who are willing to trample on the rest of us to make sure we notice them. Take it up with God if you don’t like marriage being defined as ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN!!!!!!
j,
I read Johann Hari’s post when it first hit HuffPost and found it interesting, but certainly not an indictment of an entire community. In light of the fact you chose to post it in response to this particular OCR article, perhaps the most relevant paragraph in Hari’s piece is this one:
“The growing awareness of the role gay men play in fascist movements has been abused by some homophobes. In an especially nutty work of revisionist history called ‘The Pink Swastika’, the ‘historian’ Scott Lively tries to blame gay people for the entire Holocaust.”
Mark
The protest in Irvine tomorrow on Culver and Campus has been cancelled by the organizers. Stay tuned, we are regrouping and will reschedule.
I didn’t even read that long comment. Well if that’s the case, then I say let’s over turn ALL votes including Barack Obamas.
In the USA, our laws are based upon the notion of the separation of church and state. What that really means is that as individuals, we retain the freedom to listen to our own God and to obey our own conscience in matters of personal and private morality. A legal system that assumes a separation of church and state is one that is based upon the truth of the Gospel; it allows people to make those kinds of very personal decisions for themselves, in consultation with God and their own conscience. Conversely, any law that restricts individual liberty in the area of private morality, or that penalizes some people for not conforming the beliefs and moral standards of others - this is not only a form of political tyranny, it is also directly contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Those who would support such a tyranny are not only un-American; they are also the enemies of the Gospel, whether or not they call themselves Christians.
What we call privacy and personal freedom is the secular side of that freedom we have in Christ as Christians, and just because some people may abuse that freedom to their own harm, doesn’t mean that we all must live under religious tyranny. To advocate laws that infringe upon the private lives and personal liberty of others is to stand in direct opposition to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Passing laws that restrict the rights and freedom of homosexuals is not a way of establishing God’s law; it is a way of putting a lot of demonstrably greedy, corrupt and ignorant pastors with their Newly Revised Mosaic Law over us, and taking the liberty guaranteed by the Gospel out of both religious and secular life. It’s building up again what Christ died to free us from.
1) The No on 8 people can challenge in court, but they will lose. The only initiative in California history that was ruled a REVISION of the state constitution as opposes to an AMENDMENT contained THOUSANDS OF WORDS AND MULTIPLE SECTIONS. Prop 8 contains a MERE 14 OPERABALE WORDS. It’s not even a close call. But they can try.
Whatever the cause of homosexuality – be it genetic, environmental, or whatever – I empathize with those who feel this and especially those who valiantly struggle to resist this urge. Some here and elsewhere have said that they would not “choose homosexuality”, that it is not their choice and that it has been a difficult way to live. I empathize. I can only imagine based on my observations that homosexual tendencies (chose a different word if you want) are extremely difficult to live with and to overcome. I wish you no ill.
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2) Whether or not it is the agenda of the gay community in general to force teaching of gay marriage in the schools, it will happen if we allow gay “marriage”. Soon after gay “marriage” becomes established in California, at least one gay person (and one is all it will take) will sue claiming discrimination because their first-grade child’s textbooks, story books, etc. have stories based around heterosexual married couples (something like “Mr. and Mrs. Jones owned a farm …”) but not based on a gay couple (”Mister and Mister Jones …). They will sue because, as they claim, gay marriage is a “fundamental right”, and to exclude it from the curriculum is a violation of that right. AND THEY WILL WIN.
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3) The same logic applied to my comment #2 above will apply in many aspects of life to numerous to list, or even to imagine.
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4) NATURE has determined that children are born to HETEROSEXUALS (or at least those who partake in heterosexual activity). If RELIGION happens to agree with NATURE, that hardly changes NATURE or is the fault of religion. Sorry, Prop 8 opponents, but it is those who wish to pretend that homosexual activity (activity that CANNOT produce offspring) is equivalent to heterosexual activity. This fantasy is AT ODDS WITH NATURE. That seems obvious enough.
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5) Californians have already bent over backwards (no pun intended, but accidental pun kind of funny) to give those who chose to live homosexual lifestyles rights equivalent to married couples. To the extent, if any, that this is not true most of even those who voted in favor of Prop 8 support this. I support it, but I’m beginning to have second thoughts about that. “Give an inch …”
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6) Where a radical change in the basic structure of society is proposed, the burden to show that the change is beneficial is on he who favors the change and NOT on he who favors the status quo. In this case, it will take at least one generation (the period of time to see the results of legally sanctioned gay marriages) of experimentation to see the effects of the proposed change. Massachusetts, with a population of 6 million provides a testing population more than large enough for the experiment without risking the bulk of this United States of America and its great society on the experiment.
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7) I would be surprised if more than a very small percentage of even homosexuals don’t believe that the BEST, HEALTHIEST AND MOST IDEAL HOME for a child has a LOVING MOTHER AND FATHER. Although many homes fall short of this for lack of love, a mother, or a father, it remains the BEST, HEALTHIEST AND MOST IDEAL. This is what the word “MARRIAGE” represents. Sorry, homosexuals, but the best you can provide within a homosexual relationship is less than the best possible. It is in the INTEREST OF SOCIETY AND CHILDREN to uphold “MARRIAGE” as this BEST, HEALTHIEST, AND MOST IDEAL HOME.
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RobertS…..Teaching people that it is OK to sin is what is contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Your lesson on Christianity ignores the basic foundation of the faith. So, as Jesus would say, go and sin no more.
Looks like the OCR has made the full transition to the OCR of the LAT. There was a time when journalists reported both sides of an issue. Those days are long gone. Now journalists if you can call them that report only what serves their self interests. The election was over 8 days ago and the Yes vote won by approximately the same margin as Obama over McCain (popular vote). That race was considered a landslide, yet prop. 8 is being reported like it was close. The people spoke, not once, but twice. It’s time to put this nonsense to bed. The media acts as if only the opposers of Prop 8 have passionate feelings about the outcome. The Mormon church is taking the heat for helping to fund support for Prop. 8, however, there is a much larger and diverse group of people that supported it. The hypocrisy of Prop. 8 opposers has been nauseating in that while they accuse people who disagree with them on this issue of hatred, they openly have been spreading their hatred through their immature actions and the biased liberal media.
I do have to point out that several people commented about marriage is intended for procreation. If that is so,then you had better outlaw marriages for those females past childbearing age. Also, like it or not, some people do not want children and yes….are heterosexual. As they are not propagating the species, should they too be forbid to marry?
Also, most homosexuals come out of unions of heterosexuals so clearly there is a biological basis to our very existense. Nobody teaches us or recruits us. Nearly all of us try to be “straight”. And there are so many couples who are men and women who are in traditional marriages, yet may have other sexual desires they may or may not act upon. How do YOU or anyone plan to enter their psyches to make sure all is heterosexual in every deed, desire and act?
Prop 8 won out, and now they are going after the individuals who donated to the cause, so now they are going to continue to persecute the supporters because of their convictions. But we are the bigots, we are the haters. If 8 had failed I am pretty sure we would not be harrasing the winning side.
Why hasn’t anyone commented on the incredibly skewed statistics presented?
“Proposition 22, passed by 23 percent of voters in 2000, declared that marriage could be only between a man and a woman.”
AND
“Prop. 8, meanwhile, is winning by 4.5 percent of the vote. ”
That’s just a sad and extremely pathetic example of how the OC register throws journalistic credibility out the window in support of a radical agenda. These would seem to imply that these measures were passed by just 23 percent or 4.5 percent of voters, which is utter and complete nonsense. This is a transparent and obvious attempt to make it seem as if those in favor of prop 8 are somehow a minority, and it is an insult as well. Let’s be clear: with this kind of language, Martin Wisckol is really asserting “I think you (the reader) are too stupid to recognize my transparent attempt to skew your reaction.”
This is the kind of stuff you see all the time from the “no on prop 8″ folks - lying and distorting the truth, all the while proclaiming their innocence and how badly they are mistreated.
It is an obvious MANDATE by the PEOPLE. A landslide WIN by the YES on 8. This I know as it is measured as was the vote for President. A wide margin. An overwhelming decision.
and to those Polititians who have been selling out…… good-bye….
gays are not banned from marriage in this state. Any gay man can marry any gay woman.
Ever since the OC Register came out (pun intended) against Prop. 8, they have been doing everything they could to stir this up. It’s time that the Silent Majority STAND UP.
Marriage should be for man and woman. My grand-dad said that sex should only be for husband and wife. Are we going to have laws that said that you can not have sex unless you are husband and wife? A good way to cut down on unwanted children. Government should stay out.
I say we overturn every proposition that passed and give the losing side the victory. I also feel we should pick the loser of each election and annoint them with the office they ran for. McCain as president, Palin as VP and so on and so on. Maybe looking at the ridiculousness of my two statements will prompt the gay thugs to live by the laws the rest of us do. Fair election, the decision is final.
Hello, there’s a reason people vote. One way or the other…
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
This organization is very small non-profit. Their California Field Director made $140,000 last year. They have $280 in savings. They were had a deficit on their last 990 of over $100,000 with just over $100,000 in membership dues received that year…
This of course is compared to the NGLTF with over $10M in support which only been around since the 1980s…
Log Cabin is…
1% the size of a any liberal gay organization…
Enough said in trying to say that there were Republicans out there in mass numbers against Prop 8… next story
John, if you wish to learn something about the law, read the controlling case law, Raven, 52 Cal. 3d at 350
The change in the law has nothing to do with the number of words.
The following is just one attorney’s argument:
The proposed initiative originally sought to limit the Constitutional right to marry to opposite sex couples and, thus as originally drafted, it was intended to limit the right to marry to a man and a woman. But an amendment can no longer accomplish this. The Right to Marry exists and in light of the recent ruling, the initiative’s unintended consequence is an attempt to revise (as opposed to amend) the Constitution which, as explained in In Re Marriage Cases (May 15, 2008) 2008 WL 2051892, is a fundamental Constructional right to “all individuals and couples, without regard to their sexual orientation.”
“Whether an initiative constitutes an amendment or revision to the Constitution does not necessarily depend on the number of constitutional provisions it affects, but on the nature of the changes it makes. (Grodin et al., The California State Constitution: A Reference Guide, supra, at pp. 303-304.) For a revision to be found, “it must necessarily or inevitably appear from the face of the challenged provision that the measure will substantially alter the basic governmental framework set forth in our Constitution.” See California Assn. of Retail Tobacconists v. State of California (2003) 109 Cal.App.4th 792, 833-834.
As Justice Moreno noted in a concurring opinion in Californians For An Open Primary v. McPherson (2006) 38 Cal.4th 735, 788:
Voters can propose amendments to the Constitution that will be placed on the ballot if the requisite number of signatures are obtained, but they may not propose constitutional revisions. (See Cal. Const., art. XVIII, § 3; Raven v. Deukmejian (1990) 52 Cal.3d 336, 349, 276 Cal.Rptr. 326, 801 P.2d 1077.)
See California Assn. of Retail Tobacconists v. State of California (2003) 109 Cal.App.4th 792, 833-834:
Although the electorate may amend the Constitution by initiative (art. XVIII, § 3), a revision of the Constitution may be accomplished only by a constitutional convention and popular ratification (art. XVIII, § 2) or by legislative submission of the measure to the electorate (art. XVIII, § 1). (Raven v. Deukmejian, supra, 52 Cal.3d at p. 349, 276 Cal.Rptr. 326, 801 P.2d 1077; Amador Valley Joint Union High Sch. Dist. v. State Bd. of Equalization (1978) 22 Cal.3d 208, 221, 149 Cal.Rptr. 239, 583 P.2d 1281.)
It has been suggested “the revision provision is based on the principle that ‘comprehensive changes’ to the Constitution require more formality, discussion and deliberation than is available through the initiative process. [Citation.]” (Raven v. Deukmejian, supra, 52 Cal.3d at pp. 349-350, 276 Cal.Rptr. 326, 801 P.2d 1077; cf. Legislature v. Eu, supra, 54 Cal.3d at p. 506, 286 Cal.Rptr. 283, 816 P.2d 1309.)
The revision/amendment analysis requires the court “to examine both the quantitative and qualitative effects of the measure on our constitutional scheme[, as] [s]ubstantial changes in either respect could amount to a revision. [Citations.]” (Raven v. Deukmejian, supra, 52 Cal.3d at p. 350, 276 Cal.Rptr. 326, 801 P.2d 1077; Legislature v. Eu, supra, 54 Cal.3d at p. 506, 286 Cal.Rptr. 283, 816 P.2d 1309.)
Whether an initiative constitutes an amendment or revision to the Constitution does not necessarily depend on the number of constitutional provisions it affects, but on the nature of the changes it makes. (Grodin et al., The California State Constitution: A Reference Guide, supra, at pp. 303-304.) For a revision to be found, “it must necessarily or inevitably appear from the face of the challenged provision that the measure will substantially alter the basic governmental framework set forth in our Constitution. [Citations.]” (Legislature v. Eu, supra, 54 Cal.3d at p. 510, 286 Cal.Rptr. 283, 816 P.2d 1309.)
yeah! 4.5% opposed to HOW MANY in 2000? This issue is gaining on you haters “whether you like it or not.”
I voted No on 8, because I am not a bigot Lemming. You hid behind your plethora of ugly yellow signs, hate speech and bibles. Don’t expect that to last.
Littering jerks
and for the 10% of you that actually aren’t “haters,” all that I can say is you got fooled big time.
To thecatsmeow :
You are the definition of fool. Nobody on the “Yes on 8″ side was fooled. Get over it. Move on. You lost the battle and the war.
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Prop 8 passesed so get over it! Thousands of people voted on this and it should stay that way.
We voted twice on this issue. Why can’t the will of the majority be respected? Why bother voting if the will of the majority of people cannot be respected?
Here is what I don’t understand? If you can sue to overturn the popular vote that put prop 8 into being then can’t we sue to overturn the vote that put Obama in office?
haters.
having it pushed in schools is a completely different issue. let the gays get married and then make up some other prop where you cant teach it in schools.
take the sticks outta your @$$ and quit acting like two gay people getting married is going to affect your life in any way. go take a trip on your yachts in newport beach you selfish homophobes.
Gay people are the antichrist and they will be the reason god comes back and destroys earth
I’m a republican and I voted NO to the Obamarama craze. I hated McCain and his Pitbull w lipstick too! HOW much?
What a sorry group of pickings we had this election!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRNNPDnuIxU
ocoldude… hmmm thats a really good question… only if he was gay though
oh yeah, and apparently just cuz you’re straight, you’re a good influence on our children.
Pastor accused of kissing 14-year-old girl
Pastor at Apostolic Christian Church in San Clemente faces charges of kissing, attempting to molest 14-year-old.
omgrukidding… if you’re soooo religious, wouldn’t you know that God is capitalized? geez! how pathetic! Maybe He will come back and destroy yOu!
duhhhhh
How the hell can there be gay Republicans? The world is really going down the $hitter!
sO many scholars in tHIs bunch!
The problem is this. The will of the people may be wrong. That’s right, you could be wrong in that you’ve violated the civil rights of a whole group of people in voting yes.
It’s our Governments job to protect all, even if you don’t agree with Gay marriage or homosexuality, they still have rights that go beyond your VOTE.
That’s the part you are going to have to “get over”. Just because you voted doesn’t mean it’s constitutional or fair.
To thecatsmeow, Kiss my A$$!!!
thecatsmeow, oh whatever, let me guess you own about 50cats and can’t even keep a woman…. sorry but I so fed up with all these gay people thinking they are mentallly well, they are mentally ill, nothing about being gay is normal….
I wasn’t talking to you, dude
and gay people brought on aids too… so we don’t need more of that either
mememe
its not only GAY people fighting against prop 8 (I happen to be straight). and seriously, you act like just because you’re straight, you’re perfect. get over yourself. take a good look at traditional marriages. obviously we’re doing something wrong. How bout we make it illegal to divorce?
Actually, I am a woman; & Married to a man! I “have” not “own” 2 cats, and I don’t really like dogs because they lick my toes. I believe in equality for all.
Angels o the Fly Says:
November 12th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
In a Democracy majority rules.
This is a Constitutional Democratic Republc. The majority does not always rule, especially when the majority seeks to remove equal rights. That’s why we have a judicial system and a constitution: “to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority” as one of our founders put it.
If some crack pot put an initiatiave re-instituting segregation, and the majority voted it in, the courts, correctly, would overturn it. This is no different.
mememe=my definition of bigot, lemming exactly!
It’s sad how ignorant people are.
If you possess any sort of intelligence whatsoever, please read this:
Finally tonight as promised, a Special Comment on the passage, last week, of Proposition Eight in California, which rescinded the right of same-sex couples to marry, and tilted the balance on this issue, from coast to coast.
This isn’t about yelling, and this isn’t about politics, and this isn’t really just about Prop-8. And I don’t have a personal investment in this: I’m not gay, I had to strain to think of one member of even my very extended family who is, I have no personal stories of close friends or colleagues fighting the prejudice that still pervades their lives.
And yet to me this vote is horrible. Horrible. Because this isn’t about yelling, and this isn’t about politics.
This is about the… human heart, and if that sounds corny, so be it.
If you voted for this Proposition or support those who did or the sentiment they expressed, I have some questions, because, truly, I do not… understand. Why does this matter to you? What is it to you? In a time of impermanence and fly-by-night relationships, these people over here want the same chance at permanence and happiness that is your option. They don’t want to deny you yours. They don’t want to take anything away from you. They want what you want — a chance to be a little less alone in the world.
Only now you are saying to them — no. You can’t have it on these terms. Maybe something similar. If they behave. If they don’t cause too much trouble. You’ll even give them all the same legal rights — even as you’re taking away the legal right, which they already had. A world around them, still anchored in love and marriage, and you are saying, no, you can’t marry. What if somebody passed a law that said you couldn’t marry?
I keep hearing this term “re-defining” marriage.
If this country hadn’t re-defined marriage, black people still couldn’t marry white people. Sixteen states had laws on the books which made that illegal… in 1967. 1967.
The parents of the President-Elect of the United States couldn’t have married in nearly one third of the states of the country their son grew up to lead. But it’s worse than that. If this country had not “re-defined” marriage, some black people still couldn’t marry…black people. It is one of the most overlooked and cruelest parts of our sad story of slavery. Marriages were not legally recognized, if the people were slaves. Since slaves were property, they could not legally be husband and wife, or mother and child. Their marriage vows were different: not “Until Death, Do You Part,” but “Until Death or Distance, Do You Part.” Marriages among slaves were not legally recognized.
You know, just like marriages today in California are not legally recognized, if the people are… gay.
And uncountable in our history are the number of men and women, forced by society into marrying the opposite sex, in sham marriages, or marriages of convenience, or just marriages of not knowing — centuries of men and women who have lived their lives in shame and unhappiness, and who have, through a lie to themselves or others, broken countless other lives, of spouses and children… All because we said a man couldn’t marry another man, or a woman couldn’t marry another woman. The sanctity of marriage. How many marriages like that have there been and how on earth do they increase the “sanctity” of marriage rather than render the term, meaningless?
What is this, to you? Nobody is asking you to embrace their expression of love. But don’t you, as human beings, have to embrace… that love? The world is barren enough.
It is stacked against love, and against hope, and against those very few and precious emotions that enable us to go forward. Your marriage only stands a 50-50 chance of lasting, no matter how much you feel and how hard you work.
And here are people overjoyed at the prospect of just that chance, and that work, just for the hope of having that feeling. With so much hate in the world, with so much meaningless division, and people pitted against people for no good reason, this is what your religion tells you to do? With your experience of life and this world and all its sadnesses, this is what your conscience tells you to do?
With your knowledge that life, with endless vigor, seems to tilt the playing field on which we all live, in favor of unhappiness and hate… this is what your heart tells you to do? You want to sanctify marriage? You want to honor your God and the universal love you believe he represents? Then Spread happiness — this tiny, symbolic, semantical grain of happiness — share it with all those who seek it. Quote me anything from your religious leader or book of choice telling you to stand against this. And then tell me how you can believe both that statement and another statement, another one which reads only “do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”
—
You are asked now, by your country, and perhaps by your creator, to stand on one side or another. You are asked now to stand, not on a question of politics, not on a question of religion, not on a question of gay or straight. You are asked now to stand, on a question of…love. All you need do is stand, and let the tiny ember of love meet its own fate. You don’t have to help it, you don’t have it applaud it, you don’t have to fight for it. Just don’t put it out. Just don’t extinguish it. Because while it may at first look like that love is between two people you don’t know and you don’t understand and maybe you don’t even want to know…It is, in fact, the ember of your love, for your fellow **person…
Just because this is the only world we have. And the other guy counts, too.
This is the second time in ten days I find myself concluding by turning to, of all things, the closing plea for mercy by Clarence Darrow in a murder trial.
But what he said, fits what is really at the heart of this:
“I was reading last night of the aspiration of the old Persian poet, Omar-Khayyam,” he told the judge.
“It appealed to me as the highest that I can vision. I wish it was in my heart, and I wish it was in the hearts of all:
“So I be written in the Book of Love;
“I do not care about that Book above.
“Erase my name, or write it as you will,
“So I be written in the Book of Love.”
—
Good night, and good luck.
-Keith Olbermann
I agree, lets make it illegal to divorce and I never said I was perfect…. luckily I come from a family whos parents have been happily married for 30 yrs plus… and I have been married for 8 so I am not a statistic…. my husbands parents have been married also for 36 years. I agree its rare, but thats only because people don’t know how to sacrifice a little of themselves to make their partner happy
This organization is not Prominent in the gay Community.
Based on a 990 comparison they are 1% the size of NGLTF.
OC Register needs to review the facts before going to print in order to sell headlines.
Why can’t these gays put a measure on the ballot and ASK people to vote yes or no on gay marriage? If it passes there will get what they want. The problem they face it that the people will NOT vote for gay marriage so they have sneak behind the voters back and run to a liberal activist judge and have it overturned. The voters already passed a law prohibiting gay marriage, but gave them ALL the same rights that straight people have. Since it was overturned by a judge we now voted for a constitutional amendment specifically stating that marriage is only between one man and one woman. What is the first thing they do, run to the courts yet again. All I hear from the gay activists is that right to marriage has been violated. Some one tell these dopes that there is not right to marriage in the constitution.
Get over yourselves you flaming cowards for attacking elderly ladies, vandalizing the Moron church, attacking the DEMOCRATIC principles (VOTING) with your sissy sign waving campaign of hate. It isn’t about discrimination it’s about legitimizing an IMMORAL lifestyle that MOST of AMERICA and MOST of CALIFORNIA have REJECTED TWICE (Regardless of religion beliefs, political beliefs and race). Even Elton John says you went too far!
if they get all the benefits why do they want the marriage… they don’t need it and should not have it.
If the numbers were reversed and the prop was defeated by 4%, would you same people in foavor of the prop being telling one another to get over it, you lost?
Not likely, you would be up in arms and protesting and thumping those bibles.
Hopefully you haters will one day have a gay loved one and have to explain to them why you dismiss thema nd their rights.
civil rights? please do not ride the coat tails of people of color (all colors but not the rainbow) they were discriminated against because of something they cannot change.
OK, proponents of prop H8, you can see THAT above, by Mandux, farther proving my bigot, lemming theory!
California voters don’t seem to count … the majority will of the people of California does not count … so why bother having elections!?
Just let the California Supreme Court rule over the entire the state, make all the decisions, like Kings … dissolve the Governor’s Office, dissolve the State Assembly, the dissolve the State Congress, dissolve local Governments … and let Judges and Attorneys rule the entire State of California.
edward - can you just imagine ….THE HORROR
to be againts immorality is being a bigot- then yes so be it.
The no on (8 ) Milorginate eaters are heartily adept at throwing bitchy, jejune hissy fits, tossing goofy Pizz~N~Moans, sniveling , whining, whimpering and psychotic temper tantrum protestations when things don’t go their way. Sort of like the day they were busy ogling each other neutered souls and once again managed to then get in the wrong line when God ordered them t line up and get some or not to get some. I say “YES” on hissy fits, whimpering and tossing asinine psychotic temper tantrums. It shows the majority of us, the rest of the world the lack of maturity, judgment, hormones and morality… something sorely lacking in their back end development. All they seem to think of 24/7 is their perverted, unnatural asinine sexual persuasions and how to foist their gaudy rump ranging life styles on the rest of us who could go all of our lives without wanting to plug a crappy bung hole. Get a life, get a civilly arraigned agreement not a sanctified marriage certificate and then get real get over the fact that you are wired weirdly and are doomed to leave no off spring of your own because you’ve chosen a dead, going nowhere foul , fetid and squalid gene pool.
Drive as fast as you can through Culver and Campus today…the sore-loser circus will be there!!!
bible thumper
so we just do what ever we want. If we want to marry our dog then we do that. Since there would just a few that would do that they would be a minority and so it would be a civil rights issue and it would be protected by the constitution.
A lot of posters need Civic lessons. Please take the time to learn and understand the our legal system so you will stop with your childish statement, “you lost. we won. its time for you to move on.”
http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/courts/supreme/highprofile/prop8.htm
4.5%
oooooooooooooooooooooooh
thecatsmeow, at least if your children turn out gay you will see nothing wrong with it.. Dont have kids
Mandux Says: Call me a Queen lover not Queer lova lova.
ok queen lover. HEY EVERYONE MANDUX SAYS HE LOVES QUEENS!
your ignorance is delicious
and to those heterophobes who want to bash traditional and constitutionally backed man and woman marriages by claiming divorce as a problem of hetersexual only…. what of Ellen D on tv, …. hmm how many partners has she been through?…..
Don’t forget, this is California where we care more about chickens than we do gays. Although I don’t think I would marry a chicken. Well, maybe I just haven’t met the right one yet.
zzzzzzzzzzzzz
you guys make me chuckle!
my daughter is a-ok, and I will accept her for whomever she turns out to be
I am really confused about FOUR issues in the aftermath of prop 8.
1- CHOICE
Homosexuality is a life-style CHOICE. Why is this life-style being forced on the majority who does not agree with this choice? I find it confusing that we are spending so much time and money on this choice.
2- MORALITY
I thought it wasn’t right to legislate on moral issues.
3- LOGICAL EVOLUTION
Where does it stop? Will the next vote be on the rights of a pedophile?
4- DEMOCRACY
Where is the tolerance on the No on 8 side? Look if I am not going to be able to voice my opinion in a peaceful manner - VOTING and have it stand then there is no tolerance and we are ALL in trouble! IF THAT IS THE CASE We no longer live in a democracy .
Ellen never divorced because she never had the right to marry until June of this year. So, the 50% divorce rate is a Hetrosexual issue.
Follow the donors: Check who in your area supported H8 and let them know how you feel:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-metro-prop-8,0,2463893.htmlstory
Just input your zip code
Seriously! You’re all saying this prop wasn’t about HATE?
ITS OVER GET OVER YOURSELVES
just so we get this right…… If there is something I want…. and cannot have it because of the law….. then I just become gay…. now I am protected….. if anyone disagrees with me….. then you are a bigot… then we vote and if my prop loses I get to say too bad about the vote because I am gay and you cannot make a law that I don’t agree with.
hate againts immorality weirdo
so are you married mememe? do you have a say?
ummm if you read my earlier post yes I am
CATSMEOW….I will pray for you and your daughter.
You need to be a better rolemodel and not just give up on her.
You will answer to God and you will be responsible for not showing your child how to live a clean christian life. I’m telling you I’m not kidding. It’s going to happen.
Don’t be a slacker.
People! Prop 8 passed and wont be overturned. Get over it already! This is getting old and I’m sick of all of you whining about it. You were defeated now move on
blargh
I’ll bet that I am closer to God than any of you.
“clean christian” hate spreaders
Perhaps this “prominent gay GOP group” can give the No on 8 crowd something it has sorely lacked from the beginning: intelligent leadership. The No on 8s have no business comparing themselves to the Civil Rights movements of the ’60s, Martin Luther King, et al.
The fine, respectable, leaders of past struggles like this knew how to be influential and intelligent in convincing a skeptical world to change for the better. Your cause and your leadership has none of that.
“Burn the Orange Curtain”? You can’t even strike a match.
thecatsmeow, thats like a fat person who claims they are vegetarian… WHATEVER
GG & CATSMEOW please..sit down.
I like to sing a song that ta got me going uhh when I had troubles.
We were at the beach! Everybody had matching towels.
Somebody went under a dock and there they saw a Rock!!!
But it wasn’t a rock….it was a rock Lobster!!!!!
Rock Lobster!!!.
thecatsmeow Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 8:58 am
I’ll bet that I am closer to God than any of you.
No comment LMAO.
Only God knows!
Mandux….. I agree.
catsmeow…. I agree.
Here’s another issue for all of you who supported same sex marriage.
Talking about immigration. If you legalized for Gay or Lesbian marriage, so Gay and Lesbian must be defined their sex in “any legal documents”. Therefore, they may “marry” a Man or a Woman from different countries to America ( Equal opportunity, right?). From that point, do you realize how many Gay or Lesbian will immigrate to American? All of Gay and Lesbian in this entire world will try to get in America. So, sooner or later, America will become Gay/Lesbian’s Land. Do I have a point here?
I didn’t oppose Gay or Lesbian. Leave them alone! Don’t try to legalize them on paper!
its over…no on 8 lost, time to move on. get a life!!!!
cat… i agree too!!!
Only God knows!!!
The punishment he will lay upon those who disobeyed his laws & commandments of life.
WHY does CA have voting on propositions, they never hold up, some yo-yo’s, in this case the gay’s jump in and file law suits voided what the TAXPAYERS, VOTED FOR. Why vote, I simply don’t get it. Such tolerence that the gays are always spouting off about, where is their tolerence, marching again the mormon temple, acting like imbeciles, go to another country and take it over and all live there!!!!!
People, have you had enough yet? Everytime we post we “fan the flames”. The OCR keeps this going with a new article every day. Ignore it and it will go away.
mememe=mandux blargh! (idiocy at it’s best!)
Irving, I have talked with an old family friend who is a leader of the Civil Rights movement. This friend was there when King was gun down. This leader agrees that the gay issue is a Civil Right issue like the struggle of the past and present.
Warren:
Given the voter turnout, most African-Americans DON’T agree with you or your alleged “old family friend”. Too bad.
Folks, as I’ve had to say on threads before, we will not post comments with vulgarity or profanity or derogatory slurs. That includes in your posting name. I had to delete a comment that included a slur in the poster’s online name.
it’s you are, you’re, NOT your… DON’T look like an uneducated fool! God forbid!!!
RAINBOW COALITION HAS BEING DEFEATED!!!!!!!
“Time to burn the Orange Curtain, baby!”
shaaaaaaddup…
Gays living together is not marriage. Anal sex is not the same as vaginal sex. A bowel movement isn’t the same as having a baby.
Yes on 8. Words mean things and marriage has a meaning that doesn’t need to be changed.
Jake, I believe that the court will over turn 8. If not, we’ll vote on it again in 2010. The mid term election will not bring the record number of voters. Gays will turn out in record numbers. Blacks won’t have a reason to vote in 2010. By 2010 Blacks and Latinos will realize that discrimination is discrimination no matter what color lip stick you put on it.
Warren:
Is it “discrimination” to not allow an adult brother who wants to marry his adult sister? The number of signatures need to qualify for 2010 will be based on this November total (or is it the last Governor’s election, one of those).
BRIAN JOSEPH:
Someone said the F-word in the latest thread.
WE VOTED YES ON 8 NOW GET OVER IT!!!!!
let me get this straight (no pun intended): OC, particularly south OC, is largely Republican, or conservative-based. Yes on 8 passed by a majority THROUGHOUT THE STATE, including OC….
Republican turnout in OC was at a record low during the 2008 election, I’m scrambling to find the correct number but I think yesterday I read it was around 29%.
gays & their ultra liberal pals are pointing the finger and now directing their reverse hate and “protesting” towards Republicans & conservatives in OC for having passed Prop 8, even though these are overwhelmingly not the people who passed it, and are morally against it and very unlikely to change their views. and this is the way they’re planning to get it overturned?
is it just me or is something not adding up here? or does logic not work the same in the “No on 8″ fiends’ minds??
A lot of posters need Civic lessons. Please take the time to learn and understand our legal system so you will stop with your childish statement, “you lost. we won. its time for you to move on.”
http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/courts/supreme/highprofile/prop8.htm
“kevin Says:
November 12th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Are there women’s restrooms at the Log Cabin Club? Are there Republican Lesbians? Do we care? YES on 8. Get over it!”
heh, heh… you said log.
“Irving, I have talked with an old family friend who is a leader of the Civil Rights movement. This friend was there when King was gun down. This leader agrees that the gay issue is a Civil Right issue like the struggle of the past and present.”
Go back and read my post again. Carefully this time. You missed the point, and your comment illustrates my point exactly.
Elton John is AGAINST gay marriage http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2008-11-12-elton-john_N.htm
Prop 8 got voted down twice. This is twice now that the voters have California voiced their opinion. The first time around our voted were negated by a liberal judiciary. I hope the courts stay out of it this time. Gay rights is not a civil rights issue, they have all the rights, just can’t call it marriage, so shut up and stop whining. If the courts try to tell me once again that my vote does not count, then I hope people across this country rise up in righteous anger.
Under the Constitution of the United States, the American voter trumps every level of government power. This is big government trampling on our most fundemental right. If the no on 8 crowd doesn’t like the amendment, then write up a darn good counter to it and present to the voter. Do it the right way instead of running off to the judiciary and trying to have them carry out what the Constitution says they should stay out of. The courts are not supposed to be a legislative body. Protect MY rights as a voter. Yes on 8 won and the courts should have no say in the matter.
Get over it already. Prop 8 passed. Quit trying to force people to change their beliefs to suit your gay agenda. No one cares. Go away. Yes on 8 won! You are done.
As I stated, on another thread, violence is inappropriate by either side. I doubt that “Black Independent” voted for Prop. 8, but if he or she did, I completely disavow myself from those extremist sentiments.
Lets all take a step back and look at the whole picture. Prop eight focused on Marriage in school& how it shouldnt be tought. Most school districts said they were voting no because if you ask a child if in school they are tought marriage they will say no.( unless in a religious school i.e. Christian or catholic school*) Now think about this. Did you all know that we give animals that we grow for slaughtering rights to live on land with a sized area for them to walk around, under animal cruelty rights, yet we cant seem to give humans the right to marry. People use there bibles as backin for voting yes on prop eight; and use S&G as a main time in the bible where god shows dislike of gays; but if you read the bible correctly and actually put thought into it it was destroyed for fornication, murder, indulgance & ect. and previous verses said man shall not lay with man nor woman with woman …. yet however at the end of the bible god states that we are not here to judge yet to be judged by him when the time shall come && were to love our brother & our sisters. So for all you bible followers that think ur defending your religious standings i hope god forgives you for your ignorance && your way of making yourselfs into ur own gods to pass judgement on others. Pray hes tolerant && all forgiving because you’ll need it as much as anyone else.
No on eight.