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Four ballot measures still too close to call
November 5th, 2008, 5:50 am · 104 Comments · posted by BRIAN JOSEPH, Sacramento Correspondent
With 91 percent of votes counted, a whopping four ballot measures remain too close to call.
*Proposition 8, the ban on gay marriage, was clinging to a narrow lead of 52 percent yes to 48 percent no. The difference was roughly 350,000 votes.
*Prop. 4, which would require parental notification before a minor could receive an abortion, was narrowly losing 53 percent to 47 percent. The gap there was about 470,000 votes.
*Prop. 1A, to allow the state to sell $9.95 billion in bonds to build a high-speed train system in California, was leading 52 percent to 48 percent. The difference was about 400,000 votes.
*And Prop. 11, a plan supported by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger to change the state’s redistricting process, was a statistical dead heat at 50 percent apiece. The different there was a scant 80,000 some votes.
I just posted an update to our Prop. 8 and Prop. 4 story here.
RELATED COVERAGE
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- Same-Sex Marriage Ban Wins
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- Prop. 8 opponents vow not to concede
- Rohrabacher says Republican leadership hurt his campaign
- Law enforcement, environment measures fail
- Kang leading in Irvine mayor’s race; no changes for council
- Irvine voters support Great Park measure
104 Comments
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DENA BUNIS, Washington bureau chief, 202-628-6381 or dbunis@ocregister.com
CHRIS KNAP, Politics team leader, 714-796-2240 or cknap@ocregister.com
BRIAN JOSEPH, Sacramento correspondent, 916-449-6046 or bjoseph@ocregister.com
JENNIFER MUIR, County government reporter, 714-796-7813 or jmuir@ocregister.com
MARTIN WISCKOL, Politics reporter, 714-285-2867 or mwisckol@ocregister.com twitter.com/MartinWisckol
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I ran the raw numbers so everyone can get ready for work and not worry about it not passing.
—-
At this point roughly 478,370 votes remain uncounted.
These voted come from various Counties which only 3 seem to be against the Prop in current results (Santa Clara, Monterey and Yolo) which will gain roughly 53,636 No and 44,452 Yes Votes.
This is not enough to counter Kings, Imperial, San Bernardino, Riverside, San Benito and San Diego yes votes which will likely add 389,240 Yes and 228,718 No Votes based on current results.
The Prop Wins! It is amazing how OC Register cannot put these numbers together and are still holding on to hope that Santa Clara, Monterey and Yolo Counties will shock the State with less then 100,000 votes to be counted in those Counties.
—-
Based on the Calculations
5.2M Yes (52.1%)
4.8M No (47.9%)
It was very close!
The next headline will read, “Prop 8 Opponents head to Court to challenge the Will of the People”.
RE: Alan
Oh how nice of you. If it does pass, it still does not make it right. I will send money to the Prop 8 Opponents that head to Court to challenge the Will of the People.
Sometimes the will of the people is just not right. Go look up the libertarian party and what it stands for.
While you are at it, look up “Flying Spaghetti Monster”.
My space god can beat up your space god.
Alan, you are right. We will always continue to struggle for equality for marriage rights. That is the democratic process in action. See you in the arena. Warmest Regards:-)
Yes on 8 forever, Morality wins!
LIKE OR NOT, GAY-MARRIAGE IS HERE!!!
NOT!!!
LIKE IT OR NOT, GAY- MARRIAGE IS HERE!!
NOT AGAIN!!
California says NO to gay marriage yet again. Get it gay people? NO means NO!
That’s all she wrote. The state supreme court can only interpret the state constitution. This classification is in our constitution now, and that is the end of this story. Let’s not overlook the fact that 28 other states have done this. People have decided that enough is enough. Nobody is seeking gays out to discriminate against them. They have simply pushed too far and this is the end of road as far as what the rest of us are willing to do. It really isn’t about the average gay couple down the street. It’s about an agenda movement led by the radicals at the top of LAGA and the ACLU who really do want to wage a war on religion and religious institutions, as well as gain inroads to public schools to normalize homosexuality in the eyes of schoolchildren. I for one am proud of our state.
Prop 8 passing is going to put riots, strikes in the street. Teachers, students, gays, straights, will all march on it. It will cost the state billions.
Also, “will of the people” at less than 60 percent isn’t a “will”. It’s a very slim majority that is pushing your will on others.
I have friends who are gay and they’ve been together for over 20 years and they have NO interest in getting married. In California they already have the same rights as everyone else.
Well, don’t forget that they still have upwards of 3million mail and late ballots to deal with.
California has a very high Democratic population, and it is likely that it will formulate into these votes.
Who knows?
As a hetrosexual man who has enjoyed a great marriage for 8 years I think it is sad what lengths people will go to to prevent others from enjoying this.
If this is a religious issue, let god judge because people have certainly proven unqualified.
Children won’t be harmed by gay marriage because there isn’t anything wrong with two people who love each other being together.
My wife was raised by two fathers, and I have have many wonderful gay friends and some family and surprise surprise, children don’t have weird ideas from knowing them.
This issue won’t go away because people can’t mind their own business and live their lives.
There are more important issues to deal with but someday, and someday soon, gay Americans will enjoy the same rights we all have.
It is inevitable because it is the right thing. You cannot legislate HATE, and this war on gay rights in America has to end. I would be far more concerned about what message this sends to children than two people of the same sex getting married.
And yes, this deserves a battle in court!
I lived in CA for 18 years and have been watching this race very closely. In my mind, Californians already voted on this issue with Prop 22 years ago. It was upsetting and unfortunate that the CA Supreme Court went against the wishes of the people of CA and overturned that law. Now, as Rick said, it will be in the constitution so there is no confusion. I am proud to say I am from CA when this prop passes! Congrats CA!
Prop 8 should not have passed. This is a major blow to gay rights movements nationwide. If gay people had the right to get married, it wouldn’t change anything. Guess what people? GAYS HAVE HAD THE RIGHT TO MARRIAGE FOR 6 MONTHS, AND GUESS WHAT?! NOTHING CHANGED. The only people a law for or against gay marriage is going to make a difference for is the gays and lesbians. This has nothing to do with churches, or schools, or kids. I am ashamed of you, California, for letting something like this happen.
Thanks be to God.
I personally think it’s kind of sad that a slight majority is able to amend our state constitution to discriminate against tax paying citizens. This is not a mandate-look how close the results are. To amend the Constitution, there needs to be a 2/3 majority…I think that should also apply to California.
Thanks be to god is right - AMEN!!!!!!
Ah, the bigots have spoken again. Disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Traditional values, my ass. This will go before the courts, sorry to say, yet again.
wont happen…gay people need to get over it!!!
This prop just wasted time and money when we should be focusing on other propositions that need to work on fixing our economy. Truthfully I think both sides are pretty cynical.
For the opponents: Why do you need the term “marriage” attached to a lifelong bond for civil purposes? Just say you are married anyways. A civil union gives you the same rights legally. You can even still have a ceremony. The state just wont recognize it as “marriage.” There is nothing wrong with just telling people you are married anyways.
For the supporters: Who cares if gays marry, do you think it will make your kids turn gay, do drugs, or kill people? I mean come on , whats next, jail time for adultry or having stoning as a punishment? I think 100 years ago it was the curches position that blacks could not marry whites and women could not vote because the bible says that “the woman needs to serve the man.”
In conclusion, I thought there was supposed to be a freedom of religious beliefs in this country. Because of that (conflicts that could arise between various religious values), there is supposed to be a separation of church and state. This whole issue should be up to the CHURCH! Let it decide whether it wants to allow gay marriage. I think a better solution is just to get rid of the term marriage from the constitution and let the churches decide how they want to pursue this spiritual act. If the Vatican decides they don’t want to marry gays, then they (the gays) need to take it up with spiritual leaders, NOT our legislatures. This was a waste of politician’s time on both sides. Thanks guys!
The way many of us see it, is that this was a war waged by religious institutions on the people.
cry me a river…yes on 8, gays stop your hate
If Prop 8 passes, it is an embarrassment to California. I’m embarrased to be part of it.
Marriage is taught at home, not in schools. No churches will be forced to marry anyone. You can hold and teach your own beliefts to your children, but the state and the church should be separated. Our founding fathers were pretty clear on this.
Protect marriage?? Why don’t we start with divorce, The Bachelor, Who wants to Marry a Millionaire, Who wants to Marry a Midget, etc.
What a joke. I am embarrased to be a Californian this morning. I thought we were better than that.
How did the state get into marriage management in the first place? Is regulating personal relationships right up there with defense, criminal law, public health, and education as primary responsibilities of government? My wife and I are of different nationalities and races. That once was illegal in California, as well.
Religious Bigotry won… I had thought our state was better than this…
Ironically, the proponents of prop 8 completely lied and put children as human shields when talking about the dangers of public schools teaching about gay marriage. There is no such curriculum. Never has been.
It’s good that those godly folks saw fit to lie to the public when pushing their religion down the rest of our throats.
Just like those pro 8 signs that were touting “less government” when the truth was that once again, the religious right is expanding the reach of the government to extend into people’s private lives.
Hopefully, courts and justice will prevail and this idiocy will be overturned.
Dawn - Which court would that be?
Hey Dawn,
There is nothing left for the courts to do. It’s out of their hands, and in the hands of the people. I guess that’s what has you so pissed.
it just amazes me the ignorance of the opposing side and how they cling to the fact that proponents are bigots. This has NOTHING to do with race. And NO rights are being withheld from Gay couples. if the opponents would only see past the “buzz words” and look intelligently into the matter, they would understand…but, alas, tolerance is a one way street for them.
The people have spoken…AGAIN!
TOM SAYS;
I CHANGED MY VOTE FROM NO TO YES WHEN THE TEACHERS UNION GOT INVOLVED AND GAVIN NEWSOME SAID “IT’S COMING WEATHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT.”
Alan, thank you for doing the calculations so we can go on with our day very hopefully optimistic that 8 has passed! Well said Rick! Recently I’ve noticed that speaking the truth in a calm, well reasoned manner, seems to incur a lot of name calling! Even the tone of these three comments (Alan, Rick and Dawn) tells me a lot!
There is always the federal courts, which will intervene if it is deemed a violation of the federal laws or constitution.
The real measure should have been one that strikes marriage out of government….you can only have recognized partnerships, etc. Everyone who is married automatically gets a partner certificate. Then it doesn’t become an issue at the state level.
Unbelievable that even during this economic crisis of historic proportions brought on by overborrowing, all people can talk about is Prop 8. Who cares? Prop 1A risks bankrupting our state. I’d like to know what percent of the public has any idea how much this proposition is going to cost us. I wish I could sell my house and move out of this state.
Dawn; no worries. All these pro 8′ers lost big time in what matters in the long haul last night: they couldn’t muster enough hate votes to elect the wrong president and his sub-intelligent running mate.
Thanks be to the Lord indeed.
Rick,
Do you have any children? What if one turns out to be gay? Do you want to explain to your son or daughter that he/she can’t marry the love of his or her life because you voted for an unconstitutional and discrimintory ballot measure out of fear mongering?
I wouldn’t want to; I would want my child to be happy. I guess that’s just me.
I am a straight married woman and I think it is so sad that YES / 8 is in the lead. A YES on 8 only shows that the people of California are intolerant of anyone who is different. Wow! What a great message to send our kids- ” Hey little Suzie, don’t play nice with anyone who is different then you.” What about teaching our kids lessons about life and tolerance and that it’s ok for them to be different- may it be color, religion, sexual preference or even a disability.
What’s wrong with this country? People want change, but they don’t want to have to change or compromise.
“the gays will still attack”
Prepare to defend yourselves from mobs of fashionably dressed men randomly going to homes redecorating and programming DVRs to record Will and Grace.
you know what disgusts me: obama was picked as having picked up New Mexico when only 2% of the precincts reported. 2%!!!!
This is too close to call with over 80% of the precincts reporting, but let me guess it’s too close to call because the conservatives who believe in (and have) moral values voted and are the majority.
It will always be too close to call when the coonservatives are on top and win a major battle!
The gay marriage debate is one of perceived values vs. perceived rights. Why left side is the one doing most of the name calling? Let’s appreciate what the other side has to say, because no matter how this turns out, nearly half the population will be against the outcome.
The Pro-8 crowd is not trying to be bigotted or discriminatory. Supporters want first and foremost to protect their definition of marriage. We don’t give children or siblings the right to marry just because they love each other. Every culture or society has its set of taboo marriages, and for a very large portion of the population, gay marriage is not acceptable. Some don’t want their kids being taught about it in schools. Parents have a right to teach THEIR kids THEIR values.
The Anti-8 crowd is not just a band of radical fomentors. I saw whole families out there with their blue no signs. It’s not just the homosexual advocates who support gay marriage anymore. They’re not trying to destroy society, they’re just trying to redefine it. They are not completely amoral people, they just don’t see homosexuality as morally wrong. If loving a same gender partner is not abhorrent, then allowing marriage is simply the next logical step.
Stop the name calling, and start disagreeing more agreeably. No matter which side wins California ALREADY has the strongest domestic partnership law in the country. Homosexual couples ALREADY have all the rights of heterosexual couples. We can continue to amend and contest this issue ad infinitum, or we can try to come up with a compromise that everyone can live with.
racism=sexism=homophobia
cheers,
D
Dawn,
Thank you for calling the majority of the people of California bigots and for your “kind” being so tolerant. It amazes me that “you” people claim equal rights but so freely hate.
What you are missing here is that you are asking the people to vote that your sexual preference is normal and I am sorry that it is not. You should really seek some sort of counseling for your anger issues and your obvious lean towards homosexuality.
One last point is if Gay was normal, and we were all gay, then the human race would be extinct. Please don’t push your sexual acceptance moto on me.
Look at the numbers JakeD: There aren’t that many gays to equal the votes. Honest intelligent people who don’t agree with you voted against Prop 8 because it IS discriminatory, not because we’re gay. And we apparently lost. You can huddle in your crawl space believing “gays will attack” (what, from flying saucers?) all you want. It’s just not true.
You got that right duxgirl…
It is sad to see the state has so many people who revel in stripping rights from other groups for their own petty personal indulgence.
You people are pathetic. All people are supposed to be treated equal.
Just because you can not accept their lifestyle should not give you the right to persecute them.
So in our state the chickens have the right to stand up but the gay people get crushed down. Strange and sad.
That is so true. I’m watching GoodDayLA on 11 and they refuse to call prop. 8 yet but they have already called two other props with smaller margins. Do they ever get tired of being so transparent?
I want to thank all of the YES Volunteers who worked so hard and so tirelessly. They were gracious and fair. They have protected our right to our religion. Since I personally know many of those volunteers (i’m married to one), I know how many hours in the last few months were dedicated to this cause. I will be forever grateful!
I am sure both sides wil see each other again in 2012, unfortunately. Unless…. you all just agree that Domestic Partnership is the way for you no people. (by the way - I didn’t see any HATERS on the YES side, the NO people I encountered were down right nasty)
It’s amazing to me that in the year 2008, there are STILL some very narrow minded, unaccepting individuals who feel that “Same Sex Marriage” is wrong… My heart goes out to them..!
Same Sex relationships have a better “track record” for longevity and stability. Too bad that those opposed can’t see that.
As a Black Lesbian Woman, I know a change will come. Change is the only thing you can count on. When you say “the people” you mean to say that those millions of “people” who voted no against discrimination are not “people” and therefore don’t matter??? Sad. It’s a story told & retold but if history repeats itself AND IT WILL. Discrimination & Bigotry ALWAYS loses in the end. You say you are protecting your churches & your children? Be Serious, Churches in recent scandals have done more to hurt your children than I ever will. Not pissed but disappointed in you who say you don’t want your “School Age” children learning of homosexuality but they will not always be school aged, and they will grow up intolerable of anything different. Maybe when you and I are gone from this earth, there will be the first GAY President, & 1st Family, and your “school age” child will have voted against that and probably not even understand why. Shame on you all if prop 8 loses. You all voted YES on prop 2 for Animal rights but NO to Human Rights. Amazing of all you bigots to say, YOU are not ready for gay marriage? Like now you are ready to “tolerate” Blacks & Woman but NOT YET GAYS. Well honestly, it’s not about you being ready. Like it or NOT, Gay Marriage WILL Happen. Eventually, despite adversity.
Blessings,
A~
This passing is a tiny little light in a sea of darkness. How can this pass and 4 fail. And did anybody do any research on any of the bond measures that passed. Lets spend more money on things that have already been funded.
what about prop 4 Im still a little confused on that one
Those that voted No on Prop. 8 feel that it is a discrimination issue. If its a discrimination issue then why are we discriminating against other minority groups such as illegal immigrants. If they want equality for all then we should not discriminate against minority groups.
Gays want equal rights for everyone then we want equal rights for all those hard working immigrants who contribute to our economy and at the end of the year they do not get anything in return. Where are all those millions of dollars going to.
If gays can get a legal document then immigrants should have every right to become legal.
Equal Rights for Everyone!!!
tell the mayor galvin-WE LIKE IT NOT-NO S.F values in ca, the usa, or in the schools. Maybe its time to he leave office!
Wait…..the gays are whining because they lost this AGAIN!??!?! We voted for this as a state, remember? So some braind dead liberal judges decided they didn’t like it. Now millions of dollars spent yet again to get back what we had voted on soundly before. Sad waste of money! As screwed up as the state of CA is, they got this one right. If you feel compelled to get married and you are gay, then move!
Congratulations to the mindless church-puppets. You’ve earned your key to the pearly gates. Now you can rest assured that your child will feel persecuted and cast out if they discover they’ve found the love of their life in another human being who happens to be of the same gender. They will know that the church their parents attend is not a loving, accepting haven, but an ignorant, freedom-squelching machine that rallies their flocks to inflict their beliefs on others. Live and let live.
the news is so biased nowadays. i’m curious if these voters read the actual proposed text of the law vs just the commercials. i read it.
How does Proposition 8 protect your right to religtion???????
Do you realize how crazy that sounds???
Allowing gay couples to marry does NOTHING to prevent you from practicing your religion.
However, passing Prop 8 does ESTABLISH religion…..not allowing gay marriage because the bible says it’s wrong.
I am a Christian, but this measure is clearly unconstitutional and wrong, and we all should be ashamed of ourselves for passing it.
I saw more YES haters than NO near us, It seemed the YES people would be doing all the derogatory name calling to people holding NO signs and most were students and teens.
The only way to achieve gay marriage that makes any sense is to claim it is a civil rights issue.
I highly doubt a national court will overturn a constitutional ammendment since other states have a same sex marraige ban in thier constitution now. The precident has been set.
And I am with missmommy. Many of the Yes voters have nothing against domestic partnerships and rights for same sex couples through that legal contract. It’s not like anything is changing here, it’s just being redefined….again.
Marriage is a legal term, not a religious one. Our children don’t learn religion at school, they don’t learn manners at school, and they sure don’t learn respect at school. These are things that PARENTS must teach their children. I don’t agree with everything my children are taught at school, but I do my job as a parent, teaching my children tolerance and respect and the ‘other’ sides of history not taught in our schools. Prop 8 sickens and saddens me because at it’s core is not about the ’sanctity of marriage’ –which the American public have managed to make more laughable than any other country in the world with some of the highest divorce rates and hours-long marriages–it’s about discrimination, intolerance and ignorance! Who was it that said, ‘judge not’???
Missmommy, Thank your husband for us!
Whether we like it or not-We like it not-no san fran values in ca, us or in the schools-WE LIKE IT NOT-tell the mayor no
In our country, society can define how its government governs. We tell them the rules, they are suppose to live by them. Those rules are the Constitution.
I don’t believe the supreme court can overturn it because they overturned Prop 22 stating it was not IN the Constitution.
Florida also passed the same last night. I believe we are actually close to 40 states having this as a governing law.
There’s a fashionably dressed man at my door, with a tape measure and an HGTV schedule under his wing .. er arm. What should I do?
Lately, I’ve started worrying about my neighbor. He seems to have an unhealthy relationship with a Peach tree in his back yard. Should I be worried or possibly report him to the Sierra Club?
Separate but equal is alive and well in CA. That is shameful. Supporters of Prop 8 have used the same outlandish arguments used by those who argued against interracial marriages a generation ago.
No one has the right to dictate whom another can marry. It is no one’s business except the parties to the marriage. What an embarrassment, but not unexpected from a self-absorbed population.
Yes can your believe san fran had a measure to llegalize prostitution-they are trying to push these things down our throat-say no-we don’t what them–gosh whats going on with peoples morals-no sense of right and wrong
What I want is a clear llisting of where each proposition is, and what the county/city results are listed by county/city. And no tea leaves.
Who are we to deprive Gays of the knowledge, pain, suffering and injustice of Family Court. Which is where the right to marry will take many of them.
I propose a California Constitutional amendment to open the polls on Monday, close them 5pm on Tuesday to stop puny states from upsurping our returns(which go DemmyCrate anyways)
Absolute Truth wins for once in California. One husband (male) and one wife (female).
Everyone has the same rights. They can marry anyone of the opposite sex that they like. No more spcial rights for a small (less than 1%) of the population.
Praise the Lord!
That’s the very same thing they said about Blacks. NO! Not in OUR schools, not in OUR bathrooms, not in OUR resturants, NOT even at OUR water Fountains. Hold tight Baby…..A change will come.
to missmommy… excuse me if you think its all right to teach your kids it allright to discriminate under basis of the law and dont want to teach them the values of tolerance then that is your choice. as to not seeing any haters on the yes front i beg to differ. What about all those yes on 8 promoters who went to college campuses throwing nothing but insults and defamatory remarks to students and some teachers. And how exactly did the right to gay marriage hurt freedom of religion?
I hope all of us who supported 8 take the time to practice what we’ve been preaching over the last few months - and do our best to reach out to and reconcile with those who were hurt from this process.
While I wholeheartedly support Prop 8, I don’t see this as a time of celebration at all. Gratitude, yes - but I’m sure a lot of people are heartbroken this morning. If this really was about traditional values to you, or if your support for the Prop was premised on your love of God and desire to obey Him, then you need to show those values and that love right now.
I think the Prop 8 supporters (for the most part) did a good job at taking the high road in the face of a lot of nasty opposition (sign-stealing & vandalism, name-calling, bleach-throwing, etc.). It would be pretty hypocritical if we now rubbed this in the face of those who opposed Prop 8.
Thanks be to God, and Jesus really _did_ say to love everyone - so let’s practice what we preach, please!
-Nate
thanks everyone for woking hard. sticking up for the family isn’t always easy when you are named called but its the correct thing to do-despite these attacks
Yea no s.f. morals in my house, country or state-we need to remove these corupt judges
robert in OC said “No one has the right to dictate whom another can marry. It is no one’s business except the parties to the marriage. ”
Then who is to say that a man cannot marry multiple wives? Or that a 40 year old cannot marry a 12 year old? We have laws about marriage for a reason, whether you like them or not. And it looks like the majority of the voters in CA like them.
Yes you are right but I think we need to remember we need to continue to speak up(nicely) but firmly if marriage is attacked but you are right we are all americans and we need to remember that
“… No more spcial rights for a small (less than 1%) of the population.”
That would include, I suppose, very rare disabilities, obscure yet visible aberrations or skin colors you don’t necessarily want to look at, and people you just plain don’t like?
Remember, in the OC especially: Everybody is equal. It’s just that some are more equal than others.
Sorry, my gay friends. No one will prevent you from wearing a ring, or participating in any ceremony you wish. You may even call it a marriage. A rose by any other name will still smell as sweet.
The churches win, so that no one may sue them for refusing to marry anyone.
Look at it this way: almost half the state supported gay rights.
The rest just wanted to maintain the status quo. It doesn’t mean they were against gay rights, or homophobic. They just wanted to maintain a very old institution the way it was.
You have all the civil rights, now just let it be.
My vote for the best comment on here is Vu Le’s. Too bad there’s not more of that coming from both sides…
I also didn’t mean to imply the Yes on 8 crowd was without blemish in this campaign, as I witnessed some pretty nasty things on both sides of the debate.
I just hope we can start reconciling right now - heal the wounds that many of us received during this process and move forward in a positive way.
Does anyone know what the recount requirements are for propositions?
Amazing, now chickens can turn around in a cage, but our daughters can still be whisked off by the “state” for a secret abortion. California voters sure are a schizophrenic bunch.
The next headline will read “Prop 8 Supporters Head to Court to Annul Thousands of Legal Marriages.”
Yes this is going to court.
But congratulations, you have prevented me from ever making the biggest mistake of my life. Now can we vote on my friend’s upcoming marriage? His fiance is nasty to him and we’re all pretty sure she’s in it for the future alimony.
You all owe the Mormons a nice fruit basket (I hear they like jello). And if they start suing gay people for continuing to use the word “Marriage” (we will) they might even make some of their more than 20 million they spent back.
It is truly appalling that a 4 percent victory by bigotry and hatred will eliminate the rights of 10 percent of the population. Prop 8 supporters proclaim themselves to be the moral right of society, yet they behave like despicable and evil people. During their campaign of hate, they wasted tens of millions of dollars, sunk to outrageous lies, made threats against others, and did everything possible to take the focus off of what prop 8 was really about – eliminating the rights of others.
In June, I married my best friend, the love of my life, and it was a happy and joyous day. We promised to love, honor, and cherish, in good times and bad, in sickness and in health, as long as we both live. Our vows were tested in August when I nearly lost him from complication from surgery. Our vows are tested today as we feel sadness and hurt in seeing the smugness of people celebrating the elimination of the rights of others. Congratulations on a 4 percent victory of hatred that hurts others. Way to go. Way to go for equality and fairness for all. Just remember, you cannot take away the vows we made.
I hope that “no on 8” supporters do not forget the homes of bigotry and ignorance that had Yes on 8 signs or the businesses that did not stand up to hatred. I hope that “no on 8” supporters go out of their way to give their business to gay-owned or gay-friendly companies. I hope that “no on 8” supporters stop donating money to churches or charities that did not support equality.
It is a sad day for human rights.
oc res:
What provision(s) of the FEDERAL Constitution are you referring to? A State Constitutional amendment, by definition, cannot violate itself.
For those who voted yes on 8, how many times have you been divorced? How many times have you committed adultry? How many of you had a child out of wedlock? How many times have you abused your kids (verbally or physically)? Marriage, as we know it, and as it has become, is a sham. As a gay man, I have no interest in the institution. This proposition is symbolic. Yes, we’re still considered lower class citizens by a majority of society, but the margin is sliming…. The fact the Yes on 8 campaign had to work so hard to barely win, I consider a victory.
It has no effect on me either way.
All you people voting yes on 8 are ignorant haters who need to mind you own business, Any argument you have for passing prop 8 i have a better one for opposing it. i am myself straight young female who believes that there should be equality for all and why should other people vote to say who someone can and cannot marry. Its not just about gays either it is about changing the constitution and brining back prejudice in the “land of the Free” or what America stood for when the constitution was written. So you say that it will affect the children…..hmmmmm NOT. My father is gay and yes has had a partner with no intention of getting married but why should he be able to in the future….? i am completely normal nothing is wrong with me i am not gay because my father is….i just think that some people are stuck in their own ways and need to move on and see that just because they believe ssomething doesnt mean that they should force their value on someone else. It is just wrong and for all of you who voted Yes on prop 8 you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to change something that our founding fathers set in place for the USA to run on….
Ironic isn’t it that on this historic night where we elected a black man as president of the United States, one group of oppressed individuals was swapped for another as anti gay rights movements across the US gained steam. Similar measures passed in Florida and Arizona, and the great state of Alabama made it illegal for gay couples to adopt a child. We have come a long way in some regards (equality by race) and seem to be going backwards in others.
“You all owe the Mormons a nice fruit basket (I hear they like jello). ” –SammyJ
Hilarious!
As for those conspiracy theorists that think the Mormons are going to go to court to challenge anybody’s relationship - I invite you to get to know the church’s beliefs a little better. There’s just no way that kind of activism would happen.
Way to go-The only hatred and bigotry showen here are by you and like thinkers. The people have spoken, if you don’t like it please move.
Allision:
I bet that you also support not keeping score in a Little League game as to not hurt your child’s self esteem.
For anybody who isn’t clear, Yes.. the US Supreme Court (SCOTUS) can rule that portions of any state constitution violate the US constitution.
While it’s unlikely that this will happen with the current makeup of the court, the state constitutional amendment isn’t the final word by any means.
The fact that we only need a simple majority means we could just modify the constitution again in the future. (The US constitution is much harder to alter to prevent this type of thing).
Why does a gay union need to be called marriage anyway? Whats the diffrence from a domestic partnership. Please any answers do be an donkey about it.
I don’t think the Mormons will bring the court action, they have actually come along way in very few years regarding acceptance of gays (just as long as they are not in their church).
The suits will come.
“Alabama made it illegal for gay couples to adopt a child”
No, that was Arkansas. The fine people who bring you WalMart.
Everyone has said everything that I wanted to say…I just wanted to remind people why we do educate about EVERYONE in school. I want you to look at it from a child’s view. If you were to go to school and you had two loving mothers but when you shared that you got sneared at how would it feel. Would you want you children to snear? I would not want my daughter to look down on anyone because of their differences. **GOD DID NOT MAKE A MISTAKE! WE ARE ALL HERE FOR A REASON! Making them feel bad about themselves is not what were are here for. If GOD did not want us to have been different from others than he would have created us all the same but he did not. Well I hope this will not end here. Good work everyone who helped us keep love alive even if it wasn’t enough.
“The people have spoken, if you don’t like it please move”
Why would we move, this is still the most gay-friendly state not named Massachusetts or Connecticut. And in a few years as some of the old bigots die off we can repeal the amendment. 2% isn’t that big of an obstacle considering 8 years ago it was 10%, at that rate in 3 years we’ll be ready to repeal it.
And with the gains we’ll make with the new administration and congress things are looking up for all gay Americans. America got a little bit more friendly last night.
I took a vow to my husband out of love. That is what marriage is to me. I did not get married to a man because it LOOKED appopriate.
Marriage is between two people who love eachother. about some of the other props that got passed I voted alot of nos this year because we are a country in debt being as it is I know for a fact it dose not help you get out of debt by spending more. We need to worry about the money we owe before spending money. It is almost like a family who goes out shopping and spends 100’s of dollars but they only have 20 bucks to their name. not smart in my mind no matter the out come.
Tina Your point about the immagrants is good but they need to become citizens in order to do the usa and them good. The come here for a better life but soon it won’t be a better life if we don’t do something quick. I have no bias against them I wish them all the luck but the work and don’t pay taxes as the rest of us citizens ( can’t spell) then it would help us and them for our future. We need to work on a way to make it help us and not gouging them for legal papers. they come here to make a better life for them and thier families.
For those of you making these “legal” arguments (i.e. the Supreme Court will overturn this) you don’t understand the legal arguments. The federal supreme court has never ruled on any marriage issue. Polygamists tried a two pronged argument (marriage and religion) several years ago and the Court refused to rule on the marriage issue based on the tradition of leaving those issues to the states. They also ruled against them on the religious argument but that isn’t germane here. Also there are over thirty other states who have altered their constitutions in this way. Homosexual rights have always been viewed through the “right to privacy” theory by the Court. Since there is no privacy issue here I doubt they would even here the case.
IT’S OVER………….YES
sammyj said “I don’t think the Mormons will bring the court action, they have actually come along way in very few years regarding acceptance of gays (just as long as they are not in their church).”
As a member of the LDS church, I’d like to say that people who are homosexual are more than welcome in our religion. The problem comes with being a practicing homosexual, you are unable to participate in some of our ordinances, but no one is ever turned away. Just thought I’d clear that up.
It would be like me going to a Jewish synogoge and asking to participate in their rites. Since I do not live by thier principles (namely I believe that Jesus is the Christ), it would be denied me.
But I do think Sammy makes a good point. The church fought for this constitutional ammendment because we beleive that marriage is between a man and a woman. That that is ordained of God, and was created by God as such, and should remain that way.
I have gay friends, and am happy for them when they find partners they are happy with. And I am fine with them having rights as a domestic partnership, and happy that they do have some! Because it would not be fair to not allow someone who is a loved one visit you in the hospital, etc. This fight was about marriage, and the LDS church will leave it that way.
On the issues of these sorts of propositions it is the ONLY time the Church asks its members to vote for something specifically. Other than that every voting time a standard letter is read in our meetings that includes, “the church is non-partisan and encourages all of it’s members to pray for and about the candidates and issues”. That’s it folks…they don’t tell us to be Republican, Democrats, Libertarians, Independents, they don’t tell us who to vote for. etc.
Oh and yes, it is true, more Jello is consumed in Utah than any other state in the Union.
Just thought I would clear some of that up.
I don’t understand. If prop 8 lost, also by the same narrow margain by which it is winning, then would the gays be delaring that they won by the will of the people ? No matter what anybody feels PERSONALLY….the huge majority of the United States population, at this point in time, does NOT want to legalize gay marriage. SOCIETY, like it or not, does NOT want to legalize your union. Why do you think this is ?? Nobody thinks that the world is going to explode if you would win. Nobody is ripping you apart. If you want to BE together then BE together.. current domestic partnership laws give you most of the same rights as a traditional marriage. So, stop trying to overturn the …yeah.. WILL of the people and start working on strengthening the domestic partnership laws.. Let’s face it, we are NOT all equal in the eyes of the law. Money buys the best lawyers.. we are also not equal physically or mentally, we are not all Einsteins or Angelina Jolie’s..
SOCIETY decides how each of us fits into the community and - here and now - gay “marriage” is not what the majority of the people want.
I have never made a good point about god in my life. Let alone one about god and marriage. I think the two should be as separate as church and state are supposed to be.
I’ll make simple for the pea-brain No on 8 crowd.
Man+Man = Civil union
Woman+Woman = Civil Union
Man+Woman = Marriage
Woman+Man = Marriage
Marriage = Civil Unions
Marriage+Civil Unions = Same rights
Are we discriminating against a Gay person when we call them homosexual as opposed to heterosexual? If the answer is no, then why is it discrimination when we call it Civil Union as opposed to Marriage. It’s just a label not discrimination.
Frankly, deep down in every person’s heart, each of us wants to believe that what we are doing is what God would approve of if He were visible and standing right in front of us. That is why the gay community wants the moral approval of the word “marriage” to seal their union. What exactly does marriage legally provide for that domestic partnerships /civil unions do not? Equality in civil rights is not what is being fought for here. A stamp of moral approval and certitude is what is desired. The equality being sought after is this: What I do in marrying my gay partner is as equally pleasing to God as what you do in marrying your heterosexual partner.
Those who voted “yes” on 8 are witnessing to their belief that it is God’s will that matters, and when that will is made so clearly known to us, through the Bible and the Church, we must follow it. It is very often forgotten in our modern world, that true Christian charity does not consist of confirming our brethren in error, but admonishing and correcting when necessary, all in a spirit of kindness and patience. If we cannot admonish without being rude and demeaning, then we are not being true to our calling, that of being children of God.