UPDATE: With 39 percent of the vote, Prop. 8 — which would outlaw gay marriage in California — is ahead 52 percent Yes to 48 percent No.
UPDATE: With 22 percent of the vote in Prop. 8 - which would define marriage as being between one man and one woman — is ahead with 59 percent in the “Yes” column and 40 percent in “No” slot.
Early results show Proposition 4 holding at 51 percent yes, 49 percent no, while Proposition 8 sits at 55 percent yes and 45 percent no.
Prop. 4 would require parental notification 48 hours before a minor receiving an abortion. Prop. 8 would outlaw gay marriage in California.
The numbers, however, are very early. That’s with only 6 percent of precincts reporting statewide.
RELATED COVERAGE
- Prop. 8 supporters make one last push in OC
- Same-sex measure rankles polling places
- Church and state collide at this polling place
- O.C. exit poll interviews
- O.C. Twitter comments on Election Day
- Storm kicks off Election Day
- Video: Voters have their say
- Outcome in doubt over gay marriage ban. How are you voting?
- Interactive guide to our online election coverage
- Tell us your Election 2008 stories
MORE ELECTION COVERAGE (complete coverage here)
TOPICS: President | Congress | Ballot measures | Prop. 8
LOCAL RACES: North County | Central County | South County | Schools
MORE: Recent election videos | Voter guide | Today’s election photos
Let’s hope the leads hold.
you are an idiot
typical male
go to school
and figure it out
It is beyond me, that no matter how you feel about marriage, the people of this progressive state would make the choice to BAN marriage for any human being in love. This is the end of 2008. We are supposed to be a country where, “everyone is created equal.” This is NOT equality. This is not treating every United States citizen the same, and it is an absolute SHAME and EMBARRASSMENT. I am not a native to California. I am from a state where anyone who wants to get married, CAN GET MARRIED. And let me tell you, nothing changed in our educational system. The only thing that did change was that anyone who wanted to get married, could get married. And that just seems so basic. It’s OK to not agree with homosexuals having the “RIGHT” to marry. But IT IS NOT OK TO DENY ANY TAX PAYING HUMAN ANY RIGHT! To be completely honest, I am disappointed in the bigotry in this, again, “progressive” state of California. Not that it matters, but I plan on marrying a woman in the coming years. And it saddens me that my friends, who happen to be gay, and very much in love, may not have the same, what has become, luxury, as me. Shame on you California. You ARE NOT a progressive state
Let’s continue to separate church and state. Let’s leave all the God talk up to God. And lest we forget, “judge and thou shall be judged.” Let’s not forget that a “God fearing Christian” has led our country in the WORST direction EVER… However, I do not blame his faith for that. Again, keep God and religion out of this!
Isn’t it something, that Californians will pass Prop 2, for animal rights, but not Prop 8, for human rights. It is pathetic.
Again, leave the judgment of our fellow humans to what “you” consider to be the ultimate, God, or whatever. But I could not be more disappointed in the ignorant, fearful, and discriminatory people of California.
the no on prop 8 have no tolerance-look at their ads, they steal your signs. Please be tolerant and leave marriage alone
tolerance please.
For those who says no to prop 8, you are claiming about the equality. Now, you are saying that gays can get married due to equality. If that succeed, then what is next ? Next is going to be “Human can marry an animal. Let us pass a proposition for that and claim that animal and human should be equal”. Please consider all of this, people !
A cursory read of the United States Constitution will validate that our founding fathers never, ever intended to banish God from government- far from it, as a matter of fact. Separation of Church and State is nowhere to be found in any official US document. Instead, this famous catch phrase was penned by Thomas Jefferson to a Baptist church in Danbury, CT. The church was worried that the government would have a ‘national religion’ established. Jefferson assured them that there would be ‘a wall of separation between church and state’ so that no national religion could be claimed. It was never intended to remove God from government, but to allow people to freely chose which religion they wanted to practice. It was a rather famous founding father, George Washington, who said “It is rightly impossible to govern the world without God and Bible.”
I guess the only argument that would really make me think, is if someone could PLEASE, make a valid, non-God based point, as to why gays shouldn’t marry… And for the record, I know a lot of straight married people who are unable to have children, for one reason or another… So, that argument will not work…
If prop 8 passes, homosexuality will still exist (gays have been a part of life for a long, long time). There will still be men kissing men and women kissing women… Your children will still be exposed to it.
Who are we to say, anyway?
Yes on prop 8….and next year I say Blacks should have their own water fountain…I mean can you believe that it is MANDATORY for me to tolerate blacks using MY water fountain…please people, whats next?? Dogs?? please people
A reader says” I hope the lead holds”. Polite, and non offensive. Obamanation, I bet single mother or single female calls him and idiot. And we, conservatives are intolerant? what a joke!!
The argument that animal and man marriage will be next is RIDICULOUS… we are talking about two grown consenting individuals who are in love entering into marriage… not an animal, or a minor, or anything else… so please think about that. Everyone deserves the joy of being married to their best friend.
and by the way, we DO NEED TYPICAL MALES. you know, strong , silent types, that actually take care of their families.
I hear alot about tolerance from some ignorant folks, but there’s a whole lot of oppression going on.
Oppression, that’s what this bill is. The USA has almost been about ‘majority rules but minority rights’ only, in this case, the majority rules and the minority has no rights.
You guys cry about tolerance ?If I don’t agree with you I am a homophobe. Please, grow up and be tolerant of other views.
People…. IT’S NONE OF OUR BUSINESS. I am so tired of people pushing their religious/personal views on this issue. Whether or not two men/women marry has absolutely NO EFFECT on me or my family. We see same sex couples all the time, so if they decide to marry. It does not effect me in any way. Marriage in general has been abused (with over 50% divorce rate). So if two people who love each other want to marry - LET IT BE.
Mike murphy…buddy…I agree…I mean If I think blacks should ride on the back of the bus people think I’m racist…what the heck right?
Your view is fine… It’s the legality of it all! I like your opinion, Mike… I think it’s great… But your opinion should not be the law, that’s all. You don’t have to like gay marriage. No one is saying, “LIKE GAY MARRIAGE OR ELSE!” That IS your opinion and it is your right to have it… But taking away rights because of your opinion is intolerant.
How about polygamy? If say no to prop 8 for the sake of same sex love, how about legalize marriage between multiple people, they may all love the same guy or gal. You got to draw the line at somewhere.
Prop 8 might suffer a defeat but to be sure, the US SUPREME COURT will review the issue soon.
The frightened wives beware!
I say yes to prop 8 and 4. Gay marriage is unnatural and a big scam. Alot of these people are not even “gay”, they just want the benefits and tax breaks. I also say, if me and my dog are in love, then why can’t I marry my dog? We are in love, so we should have equal rights too. My point is, there has to be a limit. Churches should have the right to refuse to marry gays, if it is against their religious beliefs. Go get married in a satanic church.
“I guess the only argument that would really make me think, is if someone could PLEASE, make a valid, non-God based point, as to why gays shouldn’t marry…”
Pete Richard, there is no “non-God” based point regarding marriage. God invented, ordained and promotes marriage, for thousands of reasons.
You can look up hundreds of examples in the Bible.
Look, if you do not want to believe in God, that’s your business, but you have no right telling Billions of God believing people not to, or worse yet, tell them to IGNORE what God has told them to be true.
What possibly could you tell these people to make them want to believe YOU verses God? Think about that, respect that, honor that.
How can a State that supported a visionary leader like Obama put such a backward amendment on its Constitution? Perhaps with Obama in the White House and a democratic house and senate; this country will truly back up its promise of equality for all.
Marriage is a religious institution.
I love it when people scream “religious intolerance” about this matter. It’s sorta like asking to be a member of a club, and screaming because they won’t let you join, when in fact, you can’t meet the requirements, and you probably don’t really want to anyway!!!
Everyone has a right to their point of view, but nobody has a right to force that view on others.
Marriage is an institution originally created for a man and a woman to create a family via procreation. Yes, I understand the various ways of creating a family, but this is its original intent. Let’s keep it that way.
But if marriage is redefined from its original intent, there will be no stop to how far people will go. For example:
In Tokyo last week, over 1,000 people signed a new petition asking the Japanese government to permit marriages between human beings and cartoon characters. “I am no longer interested in three dimensions. I would even like to become a resident of the two-dimensional world,” explained Taichi Takashita. “Therefore, at the very least, would it be possible to legally authorize marriage with a two-dimensional character?”
We as a country have been so wrong in the past when dealing with groups outside of the “mainstream” which ironically was the reason our forefathers left England in the first place. The holier than thou (no pun intended) really doesn’t hold water when dealing with inter-society issues in the 21st century.
200 years ago blacks were 3/5ths human. Only 40 years ago, did we as a country agree that civil rights are needed in order to continue to grow as a society. This is the next logical move in moving the U.S. forward as a global leader of tolerance and equality.
Let’s stop teaching our kids hatred and discrimination in the name of God. We see how ridiculous Islamic fundamentalists look when doing the same thing, right?
Kids deserve a mother and father. Its not natural to have like sexes reproducing. Obivously no reproduction would take place. A civil union is fine but leave marriage alone. Have tolerance for my view. Tolerance please.
I am with Pete Richard. I love my dog, my car, my children, and my jaw line. Because love is the bases for marriage then I should be able to marry all those items. In fact, I can recieve dental benefits because I am in love with my teeth and we are wed in California. I can wait till i get rectile benefits for my colonoscopy every week to diminish testing HIV positive: the disease of homosexuality.
Yes on prop 8 for ONE REASON ONLY. This is the most “im gonna sue you happy country.” Antidisestablishmentarianism…did I spell it right? The church vs Government….each want to control one another. The rights of ALL people All races and orientation Descriminate against one another EVERY DAY. The idea of tolerance to ignorance is SIMPLE…simply Ignor people who are intolerant.
Let there be the rights of UNION be exactly the same under a different title….one man’s marriage is another man’s union…just a different………
marriage is already restricted ie. children can’t marry, brothers and sisters can’t marry, poligamy etc. this is not about rights it’s about how we want to define marriage.
Marriage is and always has been between one man and one woman.
Would you attend the wedding of two siblings? What about a father and daughter? Would you consider that a real marriage? Once you redefine marriage you open the door to anything. It’s just a matter of time before people will be demanding THE RIGHT to marry their pets, and they’ll call anyone who opposes them ‘intolerant’ and ‘bigoted’.
Pete Richard I am not happy about Obama winning, but it is legal and I will live with the results. The people have spoke and as Americans we can dissent, but we must abide with the law.
Pete Richard - It’s called a ballot - you say it with your vote.
Race has nothing to do with the gay agenda. have respect/tolerance for a view different that yours
I agree with Yan. If people are saying that its ok for man to marry man, then whose to say its not ok for a man to marry an animal. To a lot of people its wrong for same sex marriage and you say its taking away from your rights but if a man loves a dog and they cant get married isnt that taking away from his right. so you may say that your not an animal but it is wrong regardless. If up to this point a law like this has never nationally been passed then obviously its not that important to everyone. And California is still progressive its just that we do NOT believe in same sex marriage as the majority.
And man the whole idea is just f-ing digusting
…homosexuality is wrong, was, is and will always be wrong…giving that lifestyle other names doesn’t make it right…
As a straight female, I am sad that so many people in this state that I love have voted to deny the right to marry to two consenting, loving adults. I just married my best friend recently, and the joy that I felt at having our families and friends there to celebrate our legal union was amazing and something that everyone should be able to experience. It is incredibly intolerant to say that next, people will be able to marry animals. Being gay is not a choice, just as being straight is not a choice. I don’t love my husband because I choose to, I just love him. I do choose to be married to him, and I would hope that everyone would get to have that choice to make for themselves. I have known many loving, committed gay and lesbian couples who are wonderful, dedicated parents to their children. They just want to legally cement their union, the same way I did. On the other hand, I have met many straight parents who are not setting good examples for their kids. Let’s face it, it isn’t like straight people have the market locked up on successful marriage. Look at all the celebrities who have been married 5,6,7 times. Marriage is a serious commitment, and I respect anyone who wants to enter into it with whoever they choose. Remember, it wasn’t too long ago when people of different races couldn’t marry each other, and looking back now, that seems so ridiculous. I am hopeful that in the future, this will be the case with gay marriage. I voted no, and am sad to see how many voted yes to something so intolerant. On a side note, as a teacher in public school, I just want to point out that I have never taught about marriage, straight or gay - if it isn’t in the ridiculously long and involved state standards, I don’t teach it. Such a silly argument.
Martin Y,
Your confusing your opinion with God’s.
God says marriage is between a man and a woman, simple.
You can say that’s not true, but Billions of people have a different take on that, and they have 3,500 years of printed data to back up those claims.
Verses what? Your claim?
Massachusetts has had gay marriage since 2004. Connecticut rejected a constitutional convention to try and overturn gay marriage. I live in New England, and it’s far more progressive than California. The issue to allow gay marriage in Mass. was based on religion — Quakers and Unitarian Universalist Meetings had been performing gay marriages for almost a century, but the state denied recognition to those religious-based ceremonies. Simply put, the state cannot discriminate on the basis of religion, at least in progressive states.
Prop 8 uses “religion” to keep gays from marrying. When will “religion” keep marriages from ending in divorce? Heterosexuals have destroyed “traditional” marriage by a nearly 60% divorce rate. And remarriages have ended nearly 40% of the time. Heterosexuals have no respect for their vows. Remember “til death do us part”? Maybe the gay community can offer more than we have. We know “religion” has not “saved” us from destroying what is suppose to be sacred. I am not sorry for voting against Prop 8… Straight people do not honor marriage; religions do no fend off divorce; but yet Prop 8 supporters want to use “traditonal” and “religious” reasons for their beliefs…
The reasons are wrong and discriminating.. What damage can a license do? They raise kids, they contribute to the economy, we buy from them, they work for us, we work for them. Just like you may not like their sexual preferences, I do not like seeing a fat person with a skinny person, and to imagine them having sex…????
I am not discriminating, I am not prejudice, just understanding of what people have in preferences. I do not care what you eat, where you sleep, what you look like, or what you believe in… WHY SHOULD YOU???
HOMOPHOBIC PEOPLE THINKING THEY HAVE ANY RIGHT TO TELL ME WHO I CAN AND CANNOT MARRY. HOW DARE YOU. THAT IS INTOLERANCE AND THE DEFINITION OF A HOMOPHOBE.CLOTHESJUNKIE THIS MEANS YOU.
Pete Richard, exactly if 8 is the will of the people the vote will reflect such
Ken…
There is a separation of church and state in this country. There is no place in the US constitution that defines law to be taken from the bible.
You can say you are anti-gay because of your religious beliefs, fine. But, when you say this and then force the idea on other people, that constitutes as oppression, and ultimately breaks the separation of church and state.
Freedom of religion is all great and dandy, but what happens when that system of beliefs infringes on the rights of others?
Saying no to marriage between two men or two woman is not bigoted, or hateful, or intolerant. Why do homosexuals keep telling us that homosexuality is normal. Homosexuals are biologically wrong. If this is the life style you want shut up go back in the closet and enjoy yourselves completely in peace. No one will bother you we don’t want to hear about your sexual proclivities As I am sure you don’t want to hear about ours. Stay out of our lives. Your life style is not a civil rights issue.
So, instead of cutting back on divorces and cheating, discrimination is supposed to save marriage? Anyone who votes for this proposition on this basis is an idiot. Unfortunately California is full of idiots who are giving faith a bad name.
In response to Pete:
So we should open up marriage to any “tax-paying” person that is in love. So therefore you should agree with family members marrying each other? Or perhaps even a polygamist type of relationship that should be recognized as marriage so long as the involved parties are in love.
Let’s keep church and state separate and not confuse what the term MARRIAGE implies. It is a union between a man and a woman under God. I say take marriage out of the state realm and let it be exercised by those that want to keep the virginity of the word. Don’t take away the meaning of the word marriage only to satisfy you and your friends distorted view of what marriage “should” be because now YOU infringe and take away my RIGHT of value, morals, and ethics.
No one is taking away your right to domestic partnerships or civil unions. It is my opinion that all partnerships be regarded under the eyes of the government as a domestic partnership regardless of gender.
I don’t understand the lunacy and the hypocrisy of people like you that support gay marriage, but yet draw the line when it comes to family relationships and polygamy. I’m sure you find these two subjects as disgusting and immoral. It just so happens that I view gay relationships the same way I feel about polygamy.
Please spare me the religious-whack job excuse that come from so called “god-less” people like you. You people are just as bad as those bible thumpers are. If society were to allow your hedonistic vision of life society as we know it would cease to exist.
UnhappyHusband ,
First of all, this is not about Church and State, it is about People Voting. And the vote of the people counts, period. The State is not voting, the people are. The people OWN the State, not the other way around.
I am not “anti-gay”. I just told you, God is anti-gay, I am just repeating what God says, keep that straight.
Infringe on rights? If you can show me where in the history of the United States it is written that a man carry marry a man, you are making that right up.
Gay’s will always be around, and they will have all the rights tomorrow they had yesterday, they just won’t have a piece of paper from the government calling their civil union a marriage. No right will be lost, only title.
When did all the homosexuals start wanting to conform to traditional life anyway? Last time I checked their community had developed it’s own identity. And wanted to be recognized as unique.
There is no reason to take God out of the equation. To the vast majority of Americans a Supreme Being dictates statutes of morality and that same Supreme Being sanctions marriage. A Government by the people, of the people and for the people will continue to voice that same moral stance. The state only became involved in marriage when they realized that there was money to be had in regulating our lives. Go live together in a civil union, have all the rights of straight couples (married and unmarried) and I will fight for your equality, but realize that the title of marriage is not a right, it is a covenant made between a man and woman before God, not a piece of paper from the state.
Time for all of you haters to come out of the closet and give all Americans equal civil rights. An amendment that discriminates against a group of people is truly un-American. This is not the end of the issue - and I am a straight woman.
And it begins with gay marriage. We are now on the road to anything the religious right disagrees with being outlawed. Bye bye, freedom. It was nice knowing you.
R.I. P. Freedom, 1776 - 2008
I can get married in a couthouse..sorry religious people but once marriage became part of our nationality, it stopped being explicitly religious. jewish people can have a jewish wedding, christians can have a christian wedding, and atheists can have a courthouse wedding. it’s like Christmas. Christmas is not a religious holiday anymore, it is a national holiday, there is a specific distinction in our constitution.
Yes we need to continue to speak out and protect marriage. Protect the schools Leave marriage alone. Tolerance please
YOU ARE CONFUSING GOD WITH WORDS THAT MEN INTERPRETED AS GOD’S WORDS. JESUS TAUGHT US TO LOVE NOT SIT IN JUDGEMENT OF ONE ANOTHER.
Has anyone seen the commercial “a prince can marry a prince and I can marry a princess” says a little girl to her mother…and then there’s the story about the class who was taken to a lesbian marriage ceremony…what is all that about? I agree, our children will be submitted to it no matter what, but on the other hand, I never went on field trips to see a wedding, nor do I recall ever studying about marriage in school. Maybe that should be a subject in school…the divorce rate these days is horribly high.
A church does not have to marry gay people… That’s fine… You’re all missing the point… NOT EVERYONE DOES BELIEVE IN GOD… NOT EVERYONE IS STRAIGHT… I do believe in God and I am straight, but I’m not enough of an asshole to say that what someone else believes in shouldn’t be protected under the law… IT IS a church’s choice not marry a couple… No one is forcing churches to marry gay people… Gays should be allowed to go to city hall and do what they have to do… What the hell is it to you?
And please look at all the failed straight marriages… Stop it with “the sanctity of marriage!” Do you think God is stoked on all the wife beating, spouse cheating, legal divorcing BS that goes on in this country??? Look out your front door! Look at Los Angeles and tell me that the straight marriages have ANY sanctity at all… Please… At the very least, what I have learned tonight is that when people make fun of California for being so liberal and open to ideas, those people are completely wrong. It’s like puritan Massachusetts of the 1600’s here… It’s a person’s choice who they get married to… Simple… If it weren’t for the amazing weather and opportunity, I’d please you all and be on the first plane back to where I came from…
And stop it with the animal stuff… That’s absurd… Gay people are not domestic animals… And the way the love one another should not be compared as such.
To the person who wrote to make an arguement without bringing in God or religion, I ask this question, where in all of nature( and please do not use asexual plants or animals) does it occur that male/male or female/female relationships occur over a long period of time?
UnhappyHusband ,
Also,
The Constitution was written by people, and they used God plenty of times within that document. People make laws, not the State. When People say No, then no is no.
It does not matter WHY they say no, as a matter of fact, it is none of your business WHY they say no. But we all have to RESPECT their vote, just as they do to YOUR vote.
Make sense?
Somebody on here wanted one good reason why gays shouldn’t be married other than using the bible as a source. That person obviously doesn’t know the history of the definition of marriage outside of the bible. In all of recorded history the people of the United States are the first who have wanted to re-write the definition of marriage. If you don’t believe me than please research it for yourself. Though homosexuals have existed well before we read about them in Scripture, ALL civilizations prior to the Hebrews believed marriage to be between a man and a woman. Homosexuals have always been allowed to have what the United States considers to be a “civil union”, however, because marriage was defined as between one man and one woman, the people during those days refused to try and change a definition because they felt left out or “unequal”. And by the way for the other guy who says something like “aren’t we created equal?” that raises a terrific philosophical question. If your answer to that question is yes, then you have a lot to re-consider in this life. Nobody here is equal. That term that “All men are created equal” is talking about our intrinsic value in the eyes of the Creator. Because we are created in God’s image (if you believe that) then you have equal value because the Creator gives you that value in the fact that you are like Him. This means you have your own free Will (which allows you to want No on Prop 8, though you are a pretty prideful person to change a definition that has remained the same since the beginning of time), you have the ability to be Creative, you have a conscience, and you have the ability to Love. Being equal has nothing to do with what some would call “equal rights”. If you have no arms and no legs you don’t have equal value to a person who does. If you disagree I’d love to discuss that further. But…both of you are equally created in God’s image so you are equally valuable and equally important. But that has more to do with God than you. Anyway, hope this answers your question about somewhere other than the bible to vote YES on prop 8. To be honest, moral issues, should not be brought into politics. However, moral issues are absolutes and that is for another discussion.
I voted Yes on 8. However, we all know what will happen. The court will overturn the peoples vote and say it in unconstitutional just like they did with illegal alien benifits and the el toro airport. If it was not for the US Navy stepping in we would have had an international airport in el toro!
Again, people have this idea that tolerance only works one way.
Ken…the bible hardly counts as hard evidence. In fact, it has changed hands so many times and has had so many authors and so many claims that have no historical proof, it is beyond reasonable doubt that it’s the truth in a court of law.
Martin, who’s teaching hatred and discrimination?
It’s a bit of a stretch to compare changing the historical definition of marriage to Islamic fundamentalism. Let’s marry our siblings. Let Fathers marry daughters… Where do you draw the line?
hope the “NO” will win at last. If not America will not be freeland anymore….
I do not understand. Prop 8 is not a “marriage issue.” It is a human issue. If you don’t believe in gay marriage..fine. But who am I to tell somebody else what they can and cannot do with their life? Who am I to say “you can’t get married because you are gay?” It goes beyond being gay. We are talking about human beings. I hate this stigma that we as people put on “gay.” I am not gay but I can’t stand people treating them like they are less than. How is in it a society that has 35-40% of heterosexual married couples end up divorced but yet still have a say if whether or not somebody else can get married? Straight people can get married 3, 4, 5, times but god forbid if a homosexual wants to get married? It’s pathetic..people’s personal views should not have an affect what another person does with their life. How does a homosexual marriage affect a heterosexual life? It doesn’t. But yet we still think it does. Put the personal biases and ideas aside and realize we are talking about people.
“YOU ARE CONFUSING GOD WITH WORDS THAT MEN INTERPRETED AS GOD’S WORDS. JESUS TAUGHT US TO LOVE NOT SIT IN JUDGEMENT OF ONE ANOTHER.”
Please show me God’s words on this MARRIAGE issue jbsky.
To the ones right on point, Michelle, “Neil”, 2cents,Ben, Tenchi, ……..ect.. There are two many varibles. the original intent should not be broadened.
Yes on PROP 8.
Man + Woman = procreation
Natural law people
Have your civil union or whatever, you can have all the rights, but marriage has been clearly defined for thousands of years. I don’t care who you love, or what you do behind closed doors, but Man + Man and Woman + Woman is not “marriage”.
You can cry bigotry, and intolerance all you want, but it comes down to semantics, marriage is, and has been between a man and a woman.
Call your civil union, or whatever, whatever you like, but marriage is fairly striaght forward.
Unhappy,
The bible does not have to be hard evidence to YOU. Only to the people that believe.
Their VOTE is your hard evidence.
Ken- the bible was written by man and translated a number of times over 2000 years. Unless you have a direct hotline to God, question what you are truly believing in. Is it what leaders wanted their people to do or not do in 300 AD?
With all we know about how discrimination and division doesn’t work (after hundreds of years of trial and major error), does it really make sense that God would outwardly discriminate against one group of people while showering his love upon others? It reeks of unintelligent, uninformed individuals who didn’t have 2000 years to understand what it is to be a human and co-exist with others on this planet.
BTW, I was raised in the church and decided to open the door and see what was else was going on in the world. I invite you to do the same. You will be enlightened.
You think gay people marrying is ruining the sanction of marriage, you are wrong! What about all these celebrities getting married for fun and people going through divorce after divorce, those are the people who are ruining marriage in this country and making it look like a joke. If two people who truly want to be married, no matter what their sex, let them do so, what right do you have to say no, does it really affect you? No it doesn’t, why don’t you worry about your own marriage and your own life.
You all want a “non-God” reason? Because homosexuality is wrong. We were created (or evolved depending on your belief) with certain reproductive tools assigned to male and female. Men were never meant to be with men and women were never meant to be with women. It’s not set up that way. Marriage in itself is a religious founded practice, so wanting to stay out of religion shouldn’t homosexuals be okay with domestic partnership? They already are recognized for benefits and can be named as beneficiaries and be given power of attorney.
Who is someone else to tell us to redefine marriage
It’s sad how a human beings could reject their own kind, however marriage is based on love, loyalty and respect and and regarthles prop8 gets passed or not gay relationships will still be as strong as they have always been. and for the guy that compared us, gaycouples as humans and animals, let me tell you that marriage between animals and humas has been aproved and your wife married one, you idiot.
Here’s a story for all our kids: the tale of a forgotten ideal called freedom and the nutjobs that murdered it.
Martin,
I am 46 this month, I was an atheist until I was 40.
Look, trying to in sult me will not get the proposition voted down. Try to respect other peoples choices, ALL OF THEIR CHOICES, especially the ones you do not AGREE with, that is the definition of TOLERANCE.
Try it sometime.
Sergio,
Calling people names shows that you are clearly the one losing the argument.
you all need to get over it. when you go to bed at night there are way more important things to worry about. let people marry who they want to. its non you your buisness. it has no effect on your life. what other people do in their house in their lives is non of your buisness. let them live their lives and you live yours. how is it if two men or two women get married how does that effect your daily life? it wont!!!
its going to happen one day sooner or later so why not now? if someone told me i could not marry my husband because we come from two diffrent back grounds that would suck….. give it a rest…..
If God did not want gay people on earth he would not have put them here.
Ken
I might remind you of the era in which the constitution was written. The vast majority of the Americans citizens at that time were christian, and being atheist was taboo and unforgivable. If the constitution would be written in this day and age, I would be willing to bet every last penny I own that the word God would never be written in it.
I respect all votes, but your rights are not being denied: mine are. When you have walked in my shoes, then you can come and talk about tolerance and equality.
Haha… Yeah and keep using CAPS it makes you sound even more special
NO ON 8 NO ON 8 GROW UP STOP HATIN LOOK AT UR SELVES BEFORE U JUDGE OTHERS
Unhappy,
No one is denying you any rights. That is all in your head. If you wanted to marry, you would.
Using your street address as an excuse is plain stupid.
What is more important, Love or where you live?
Seriously….
I do love people who tell us how “tolerant” they are, then demand that gay people “shut up” and “go back in the closet.”
Robert Bobby G and others: People like you are exactly why we should NEVER put anyone’s civil rights to a vote. Fortunately, I suspect it won’t be long until the Supreme Court puts an end to this once and for all, and makes marriage an inalienable right for all citizens.
Since when did being gay become a race? Gays are trying to equate lifestyle to racism. If we were to allow that lifestyle to be called marriage, which has traditionally been a religious ceremony done for the purpose of procreation, then why not bestiality, pedophilia or polygamy?
Being against gay marriage does not mean you are a bigot, it just means you have a different view of what the definition of marriage is. I’m all for civil unions and I don’t think gays should have that exclusively either, it should be open to any two persons of legal age.
Lizard,
Lying does not become you.
I never told anyone to shut up or go away.
If it’s so right then why does it lead to extinction of the human race????
Lizard,
Is it my civil right to marry my daughter? If not, explain in detail why not.
Ok, you guys need to stop. Just stop right there. Who are you to decide what is right and what is wrong? If there is a god, he is a loving, kind man who loves all people no matter what there sexual favor is. Who ever is a Yes on 8 person, please reconsider in your mind. You fucking idiots! how dare u put laws on people’s marrying ability
8 Wins…gays lose. End of disucssion.
Move to SF or MASS if you want to be gay and force people to marry you in chruch arenas that does not condone your lifestyle.
Move on!
Man, Woman and children are family!
Proponents of the measure keep hammering away at the “Rights” theme, but rarely offer any details. If you’re referring to the right to be named as a beneficiary for insurance purposes, to represent the wishes of a dying partner, the right to take advantage of health care or other benefits, being recognized as the life partner of another gay person with the rights and priviledges afforded to married couples - these have not been true issues, as far as I’m aware, and don’t relate to Prop 8.
Married? I personally don’t think so. I suspect that the majority of Californians will agree at the polling booth. Does that mean that those who favor the proposition are discriminatory, bigoted, intolerant? No - it just means that they disagree with the initiative’s supporters.
# mike murphy Says:
November 4th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
You guys cry about tolerance ?If I don’t agree with you I am a homophobe. Please, grow up and be tolerant of other views.
*************************************************************************
You are so right mike! Gays want to force their views on you and if you don’t agree with them then yes, you have the problem and your a homophobe. Luckily there’s still some decent people left in CA (outside of San Fran and Hollywood).
It’s Adam and Eve
NOT Adam and Steve
Ha-ha - Prop 8 passed so let’s get ready for the Gays to file a lawsuit with the Supreme Court because they know what’s best for everyone else.
One thing they forget is that were still a democracy and the majority RULES!
Who cares what people do? If gay’s want to get married they should be able to. Who cares if someone wants to marry an animal? Who cares if someone wants to marry a tree. Let people live their life and who cares what they choose to do. Isn’t that what freedom is about?
Everyone referring to the “human and animal marriage”, you are a JOKE. We are asking for two adult HUMAN individuals wanting to be happy. An animal has NO legal standing. That is probably the most ignorant and stupid thing I have heard you arrogant people use as an excuse to refuse people their right to marriage. Rediculous.
Wow, comparing same-sex marriage to human/animal marriage- this will be a sad, sad day in California history if Prop 8 passes.
Anyone,
Is it my civil right to marry my daughter? If not, explain in detail why not.
A married couple (man & woman) should not be confused with some other type of union.
A union between another couple can be called anything it wants to be called; with all the rights and privileges of other unions just don’t confuse it with marriage.
Please find some other name to call your union, but don’t call it marriage.
Van Damn:
who are you to say that?
how dare you! The prop is not over, they have not won yet. anyone is family if they love each other. what have gay people ever done to you they dont choose to be this way. who cares they dont mean any harm. you should be ashamed of your self
Steph, ZZ,
Is it my civil right to marry my daughter? If not, explain in detail why not.
Ken, do the words separate but equal mean anything to you? If this passes, we will be separate but equal. They defined blacks and whites as separate but equal, too, and look how free they are today. Separate but equal is not equal.
To say that my rights aren’t being infringed upon is ignorance. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; your so-called brand tolerance is obstructing my happiness.
Where do you get street addresses from? I said nothing about that.
This says it all!
Question: Why is the law of chastity so important? Why is sex before marriage wrong?
Answer: Fundamental to the great plan of happiness and central to the teachings of the Savior is the family. A new family begins when a man and woman make sacred marriage vows and are legally bound together to become husband and wife, father and mother. The perfect beginning is through sealing in the temple. With marriage they commit the best of themselves to be absolutely loyal to each other and to invite children to be nurtured and taught. The father assumes his role as provider and protector, the mother her role as the heart of the home, with her tender, loving, nurturing influence. Together they strive to instill in themselves and their children principles such as prayer, obedience, love, giving of oneself, and the quest for knowledge.
Within the enduring covenant of marriage, the Lord permits husband and wife the expression of the sacred procreative powers in all their loveliness and beauty within the bounds He has set. One purpose of this private, sacred, intimate experience is to provide the physical bodies for the spirits Father in Heaven wants to experience mortality. Another reason for these powerful and beautiful feelings of love is to bind husband and wife together in loyalty, fidelity, consideration of each other, and common purpose.
However, those intimate acts are forbidden by the Lord outside the enduring commitment of marriage because they undermine His purposes.8 Within the sacred covenant of marriage, such relationships are according to His plan. When experienced any other way, they are against His will. They cause serious emotional and spiritual harm. Even though participants do not realize that is happening now, they will later. Sexual immorality creates a barrier to the influence of the Holy Spirit with all its uplifting, enlightening, and empowering capabilities. It causes powerful physical and emotional stimulation. In time that creates an unquenchable appetite that drives the offender to ever more serious sin. It engenders selfishness and can produce aggressive acts such as brutality, abortion, sexual abuse, and violent crime. Such stimulation can lead to acts of homosexuality, and they are evil and absolutely wrong. Sexual transgression would defile the priesthood you now hold, sap your spiritual strength, undermine your faith in Jesus Christ, and frustrate your ability to serve Him. Consistent, willing obedience increases your confidence and ability. It produces character that allows you to face difficult challenges and overcome them. It qualifies you to receive inspiration and power from the Lord.
If Prop 8 doesn’t pass….I swear I will advocate polygamy as a entitled right of mine and the government must recognize it as marriage.
I will whine and cry just like all you activists out there and even have the audacity to call it a “civil rights issue”. I will advocate that it be normalized in society as another form of partnership.
I will watch you activists squirm and try to deny my so-called “rights”.
Oh and ROBERT BOBBY–You say for gays to stay out of your lives correct. Well answer me this, how in the world are they in your life? They want absolutely NOTHING to do with your life. YOU are interfering with theirs. And you say it is not a civil rights issue? Well then why did you make it one? It wasn’t an issue until the supporters of 8 made it one. I think you are a little backwards. Make sure you know what you are talking about before you start posting things.
Van Dam:
Grow up……..
I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8 I HATE YES ON 8
it was adam and eve not adam and steve if i recall correctly….yes on 8
Unhappy,
If you want to marry just go to Mass and do the deed.
No one is stopping you.
Get it?
Not even your location is stopping you.
No one is denying you ANYTHING, you are just complaining about nothing. Get it?
Yan and Lisa should hook up…
But wait! This isn’t about animals marrying animals…
Wake up and mind your own business! Tell me why everybody concerned with who everybody’s sleeping with?
I’m right there with you Kevin. I want to marry my surfboard. Give me my freak’n rights!
Once again, Ken, your ignorance of the situation and religious beliefs have clouded your reasoning and logic.
NOBODY said anything about unlawful marriage (such as marrying a daughter or brother). You put that in there just to point out in your own diluted sense of justice that homosexuality is comparable to inbreeding. Ignorance and fear mongering.
GET YOUR OWN MARRIAGE!!!! Marriage is the definition of the union of a man and a woman. Gays already have rights as civil unions so get outta here. Stop forcing your bedroom habits on the rest of us. Nobody wants to know what happen behind your closed doors. The people have spoken for a second time. Have respect for the democratic process.
You sore losers are pathetic!
Ken,
So if nothig is stopping us why not let california allow it and not have ass holes like you ban it?
Defining the word “marriage” as between 1 man and 1 women (as it has be defined and understood for thousands of years) does not take away any civil rights from any individual in the state of California. All domestic partnerships (whatever the partnership makeup is) have the exact same rights and privileges as any married couple in California - the laws have been passed to guarantee these rights to all.
But many people feel strongly about keeping the term “marriage” to its tradition meaning. This is not a discrimination of rights. If gay and lesbian couples who have a relationship don’t care for the term “domestic partnership” or “civil union,” couldn’t we come up with a new term or word for their relationship that would not alter the traditional meaning of marriage? I have seen the term “garriage,” but I personally like the word “pairrage” or “parried.”
CALM DoWN ALL YOU F@GGETS enough qweerness for the day
California is obviously full of stupid, intolerant people. The money that was spent on the yellow signs did the job. The voting idiots who didn’t bother to learn what the proposition was really about (intolerance, bigotry), voted yes because so many (Mormons, Christians) fought so hard to get the word out. Congratulations, but I am SO embarrassed to live in this state, and especially in Orange County. Idiots!
Notice how no one AGREES with me MARRYING my Daughter, but at the same time, no one from the NO ON 8 crowd can answer me why.
Shameful.
Now, if a NO ON 8 person tells me that it is JUST FINE if I marry my daughter, then they will NOT be a hypocrite, not likely…
VoteNO,
I cannot speak for the 36 million people in California, sorry, really.
yea you go ken woooooootwwwoooooot YES ON 8
There are other places that you can get MARRIED if you’re gay. Why must you people encroach my life with your sadistic views on life. You have civil unions…Don’t shove your life down my throat.
VoteNO,
I did not vote YES on Prop 8.
Calling me an asshole really is weird. For you.
So this is what “social progress in reverse” looks like!
What’s next? Let’s define what “arranged” marriage is!
Maybe we can make it where nobody has a choice of who they want to be with!
Did No on prop 8 pass or not? Any word? Because I really want to marry my girlfriend of 5 years
well, we elected a black pres and it looks like the gays have moved to the back of the bus. the more we change the more we stay the same.
I voted yes on 8!
It did not stop the discrimination.
Ken:
Marry your daughter…… there I told you now shut up
I voted Yes on 8, but how did this discussion morph into marrying one’s daughter? You lost me.
Why should I HAVE to move there? That makes no sense. If it has been legalized in one location and proven both productive and helpful to society (such as in Netherlands), then it should be legalized everywhere.
If you marry your daughter that is fine it is your buisness, none of mine, if you want to commit some heinous thing like having sex with your kin go ahead, so just let the gays marry
I guess Barak Obama was about as much change as some people could handle. Defense of marriage, yeah right, like I believe that!
Straight couples of ALL faiths have shown an extereme lack of repect for the sanctity of marriage, so Prop 8 is extremely hypocritical to me. I know more gay couples who have been together longer than many of the straight couples I know, religious or not. I think denying people the right to marry is shameful, no matter what sex they are.
The fact is, gays have been able to marry since earlier this year and it hasn’t been taught in school or forced on your kids or churches. That is straight up homophobic fear perpetuated by the religious media to back their agenda (and the Mormon church).
Prop 8 has nothing to do with discrimination and it is hardly anything like racial segregation. Marriage is a legally binding contract between a man and woman, period. Homosexuality is SEXUAL BEHAVIOR. Simply put, a marriage is a legally binding contract and relationship between one man and one woman. It is not one between a man and a man or a woman and a woman or two women and one man or five men and two women…
p2j ur officially a fag
You’re right… if it worked with sodom and gomorrah it’ll work for us.
Don’t forget to put on your sunscreen
BuckyBadger
This comes from the clever tactics of Ken, who has decided to pollute people’s judgment with irrelevant ideas that really have nothing to do with gay marriage.
Pro-McCain but No on 8
End acceptable and applauded racism - no on the racist Wright and his follower Obama. End homophobia and other means of hate.
I love california. You guys rock. Thanks for working hard . Marriage needs to always be protected.
VoteNO,
You call me having sex with my Daughter HEINOUS? You Bigotted, narrow minded piece of trash!!!
WHY is marrying my Daughter WRONG in your eyes?
I am dying to know what made you so narrow minded all the sudden
unhaapppy husband who likes a cock in his asss because hes gayyyyy
Some questions for the Anti-8 crowd:
How can a homosexual have the “right” to marry someone of the same sex? From where or whom is that “right” obtained? It certainly isn’t a “natural” right (nor religious right); otherwise, most societies would have recognized it as something natural and ordinary in the past.
How does Prop 8 “take away” a right that doesn’t exist?
What is the definition of marriage? Is it merely two (or more) people who “love” each other and have sex? If it is, then you are certainly right that this is a right. But, upon further review, this is hardly the case. Never has and never will be.
Marriage is a sacred institution, pre-dating government, that has been recognized and affirmed as the best means of maintaining a good/civilized society and protecting/rearing the next.
swrew the lead, it passed! hurray!!
Unhappy,
Tactics? Be real.
Just tell me WHY I shouldn;t marry my daughter, and I will tell you why you shouldn’t marry another MAN.
You first!
amel
your just a homophobic person who should learn how to deal with gay people
Why don’t you all take to the streets for the theft the federal government has committed in various versions of “bailouts”, astronomical federal debt figures, and federal government that looks more likely to go bankrupt each day? We are in a very seriously huge pile of manure and you idiots are barking about gays wearing whitedresses……. while Rome continues to burn.
Amel is definitely homophobic! Snivelling little biotch!
Ken, you nitwit, I was talking to Robert Bobby G, as you might have guessed from the fact that I used his name in my comment. Reading is fundamental.
“Clever tactics”, in this case, must be a synonym for “Fallacious Argument”, I take it?
vote no,
im not homo phobic i just dont like gays…….there gay cmon
Everyone seems to want to yell “you can’t impose your views on me”.
Well, tonight 50+ million other Americans imposed their views and the views of Barack Obama on me. And I will respectfully, if not happily, submit myself to the laws of the land that may come about as a result.
So yes, people can and do indeed force their views on others in a democracy. That’s the way it works. So some here need to rid themselves of their naivete.
Lizard,
Thank you for helping me to read!
My apologies
and plato dont get me started with ur fagget ass who loves to take it up the butt fag
I’m just jumping in here but I got to say, I find all this rhetoric very amusing. God this, racial that, my friends can’t get married, They’ll teach my kids about homosexuality. Is it my civil right to marry my daughter. I’m a christian, born and brainwashed in the church. Went on to be a drug and alcohol addicted Rock star. i partied with the best of them. Now I’m reconciled with God and I love Jesus and all the fairy tales and looking at all this it truly amazes me how lame the human race is. Marriage comes from God between a man and a woman. Why do we want to change websters dictionary. Make up a new word for Gay marriage, let them have insurance rights. Let them ride in the back of ambulances when their loved one is sick. Let them be as marital family but don’t call it a marriage. Let them reconcile their sin with the creator when judgment day comes if in fact it is sin and there is a God, I’m not here to judge. I will tell you this, These fairy tales and the man we know truly existed and walked the earth, Jesus has changed my life and I pray that all humans will reconcile with God the creator before it’s to late but let’s not make this same sex marriage out to be like racial equality because it’s not the same thing and let’s word it like it is and I will vote no on 8. I’m A.D.D so maybe we should have a vote to change the way school is taught so I fit in and change everything about linear learning so I won’t be discriminated against. I don’t think so. I’m sure some knucklehead that can put together more than 3 words in a sentence will throw me under the bus or have some intellectual view that’s different then mine but my hope is this. That no matter how lame you are I hope you reconcile with God before you die, like he’s asking the Jews to do for years and years because ultimatly complete seperation from God when your earthly body dies will suck. God Bless you all,
Hollywood James
arnel
so what if they are gay that doesnt mean anything
you are homophobic, you dont like them at all, in fact you are probably scared of them. you probably walk across the street if you see a gay couple. Being gay has nothing to do with making up a person
Ken, do you have sexual thoughts about your daughter? You seem obsessed with marrying her. I don’t know any gay person who takes such an interest in his or her own family members. Just saying.
Amel, those two dark spots that show on the MRI of your brain indicate a dopamine deficiency. It can’t be cured, but it can be treated.
No matter the outcome of Prop 8, I believe homosexuality will become an accepted lifestyle/behavior within our society. In my view, it’s inevitable.
I’m not the Ken who said marry my daughter. Keep it straight and stop the hate.
Not all Ken’s are asswipes.
My two cents,
Look up separate but equal. It applies here, as well.
So, as you said, marriage is a ‘legally’ binding contract. Since when does RELIGION deal with legality of STATE law? That is an infringement of my rights, particularly my right not to be oppressed by other’s religious beliefs.
Honestly, you’re all making a big deal out of nothing. Gay marriage has done nothing to harm the societies of Spain, Canada, The Netherlands, and South Africa, and it shall not do it here. Like Ken said: it’s all in your heads.
Lizard,
Personally, no.
But I am thinking the NO ON 8 people feel it is my civil right that I SHOULD be able to marry her. I am just trying to get “clarification” on their “position”.
Pure hypocrisy I tell ya…
Self-righteous, know-it-all, fundamental religious idiots want to turn their narrow beliefs into law and impose them upon all, including those who don’t share their beliefs or their limited, religiously defined lifestyles. In this country, you are free to live and believe as you want, as long as your beliefs and acts don’t infringe upon others. How is a gay marriage of two consenting adults infringing upon anyone else’s freedoms at all? How? It might be offensive to you, but then so is your idiotic belief system, your ceaseless proselytizing and your blind faith allegiance to handed down myths offensive to others. However, we won’t deny you your right to practice your mystic voodoo garbage. Just because you might be a majority, does not make you right. Doesn’t your holy book tell you not to judge others. Yet, you hypocritical abobs are always the first to cast stones. Jesus would scold all of you judgmental, mean-spirited, false-believers before he would ever condemn a homosexual. How dare you claim to speak in the name of the Lord. For shame. You are all far from having pure hearts. You use your faith to exalt yourselves and others like you and to vilify and condemn all others. This is perhaps why your faith worships a man and God as the image of man. You’re in love with yourselves and hate others who are not like you.
amel
you are a loser
Unhappy,
are you going to answer my Civil Right question or are you going to be a hypocrite ?
vote no,
one of these days kids are gona start thinkn its gona be cool to be gay…..next thing you know kids are being gay…..like people smokin pot nowadays……then we all go extinct
Listen guys this has been fun, but i gotta get to bed, you know being a freshman in highschool is hard work
Not only that, Dano, but they disagree with you.
HOMOPHOBIC PEOPLE THINKING THEY HAVE ANY RIGHT TO TELL ME WHO I CAN AND CANNOT MARRY. HOW DARE YOU. THAT IS INTOLERANCE AND THE DEFINITION OF A HOMOPHOBE…..
Notice the buzzword “intolerance”! How about my children being forcebly teached about homosexuality in school, against my will. Where’s the tolerance? How about my pastor being charged with a “hate crime” for faithfully teaching the bible; where’s the tolerance? We are being forced to accept what we all know is inherently wrong. Live your life; but don’t demand that me and my family be a part of it! Be proud to be gay if you so wish; but don’t demand that me and my family share your sentiment. Make it illegal for me to exercise my freedom of speech, if that will make you feel better about the life you have chosen; but I will continue to teach my children to love everyone, but to also not be afraid to stand for what’s right, no matter what the consequences might be. Right is right and wrong is wrong. That is a basic truth that will never go away.
Why don’t all the people who voted YES on Prop 8 just come out and say what they really think? That being, they are actually just against GAYS in general, and this proposition is just a thinly veiled way of keeping GAYS down. These posts about marrying animals or siblings, while funny, are completely useless and irrelevant.
People have an issue with homosexuals because in the book they worship with their fairy god tells them so. Lemings who believe what they read are the most dangerous of them all. Newsflash, there is no god. And that precious book, was written by corrupt men in the 3rd century. Since you all belive everything you read, why don’t you do some research about your religion and wake the hell up.
Being Gay is not a choice, just like being straight is not a choice. Can any of you say you could “choose” to be gay if you wanted to? Yea, i didn’t think so. Well guess what, it’s the same for them too.
EVOLVE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!
Dano,
Is it my civil right to marry my daughter? If not, explain in detail why not.
Can’t you people make a valid argument without resorting to name-calling and personal attacks?
So here we stand as individuals in a country of freedom, yet we have not the basic rights each individual should be granted. It would be unfair to assume that most pro-8 commenters are “bigots”..but rather oblivious. For what one might stand for, and religion being completely held apart…I find it quite saddening that this is based of the sanctity of marriage, when marriage itself, can no longer be considered sacred (and for many reasons)…but to state clearly in reference to the bible…that what you (pro-8) stand for is right…can be challenged by many in the same religious understanding; where the bible is open to interpretation, and that alone, is not one for only what is announced within a specific community. In this case, tolerance should be practiced…and yes, there is indeed a separation of church and state. Exactly what has led anyone to believe it is not?
Unfortunately, there is a price to be paid with the increased African American and Latino vote. While both groups are liberal in many respects, they are also socially conservative. This includes more traditional views when it comes to marriage. I don’t believe many of the hate mongers on the left that think in “black-white” terms. There is a lot of shades of grey. Many don’t have intolerance for gays, but prefer the traditional definition of marriage. Many African-Americans in my neighborhood are upset that these NO on 8 ads lump the gay movement in with the civil rights movement, which was alot more painful and difficult to reconcile in American history.
omg ura a freshmen ur probably a fagget asss asian huh vote no
Amel, you break me up: smoke pot, then go extinct. You’ve lost too many brain cells.
amel,
can u ever make ure self gay?
your answer is no probably, Gay people are born this way they cant change that. so it would not be cool or uncool to be gay, being gay is just the way u are
This say it all.
# Nathan D Says:
November 4th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Gay’s will always be around, and they will have all the rights tomorrow they had yesterday, they just won’t have a piece of paper from the government calling their civil union a marriage. No right will be lost, only title.
When did all the homosexuals start wanting to conform to traditional life anyway? Last time I checked their community had developed it’s own identity. And wanted to be recognized as unique.
There is no reason to take God out of the equation. To the vast majority of Americans a Supreme Being dictates statutes of morality and that same Supreme Being sanctions marriage. A Government by the people, of the people and for the people will continue to voice that same moral stance. The state only became involved in marriage when they realized that there was money to be had in regulating our lives. Go live together in a civil union, have all the rights of straight couples (married and unmarried) and I will fight for your equality, but realize that the title of marriage is not a right, it is a covenant made between a man and woman before God, not a piece of paper from the state.
Bree25gray,
Is it my civil right to marry my daughter? If not, explain in detail why not.
Welcome to California , now go home!….Obamanation is just that , an abomination . You bent & twisted morons can have this state . I’m out of here . Totally ashamed this once beautiful state should be of itself . Pete Richard is correct in saying shame on you California . Too bad his reasoning for the comment come from the wrong side of the fence . San Francisco started this freak show , now look at this pathetic place . Do you idiots have any idea what the rest of the world must be thinking ? Finding it a shameful thing to be an American citizen anymore because of you twisted freaks has just added to the population of the back country & the beginning of another Dooms Day Ranch . I’ll be sittin’ on top of the mountain when the mushroom clouds blossom of the coastlines while you fags burn .
no being gay is like smokin pot u genius……..its everywhere…….no more babies cuz were all gay…..vote no i love u but yes on 8
amel
actually i am white 14 1/2 year old who probaby knows more about politics than you degenerate ass and i aint say more abut myself because for all i know your a 35 year old pedophile
I am a bisexual male and I do have respect for the gay community. I want them to be able to marry as “domestic partnership” (not in church), but I don’t believe in altering religion and changing the ways of the church. It’s not fair for a Catholic church to be shut down because they refuse to marry a gay couple. Or a marriage counselor not wanting to counsel a gay couple based on her religion and beliefs and be thrown to jail or lose her license. And not to mention teaching about Homosexuality in school is not appropriate. They should grow knowing about being gay their own way not being lectured and finding out about Homosexuality at a young age.
I have plenty of gay friends that have told me point blank that is a choice. Period! They do not believe for a second the were born that way.
for all you kno im 14 years old too and trust ,me im alot smarter than i sound
THERE IS NO GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Take some lithium and get over it
You would think all these self-proclaimed smart people could answer a simple question…
smarter than u think not SMART
I have close friends who are for prop.8 and I have friends who are against it.
I like to believe that in the U.S, especially, since I live in Calif. that we were born in a nation that have different ideals.
I’ve asked all of them for their reasons and I respect their decisions.
We all know that people cannot change minds of other people who feel so strongly about their opinions. It’s like a parent saying you can’t be who you are.
I understand that people feel strongly for what they feel and I will not condemn it.
But it truly saddens and angers me when people start physically harming each other, because of their ideals.
Stop shoving the signs in front of each other’s face , especially within ten feet of the polling place, since that’s not allowed by OUR nation’s law. Stop the pushing. We have the right to assemble peacefully and that’s not including getting into people’s face and calling them names just because we don’t like what they voted for.
Unfortunately, words can hurt a person; actions can hurt them more.
I’m happy that we’re expressing our views, just not happy about the physical violence and the hate that it brings between us.
Whatever the results, we’re still Californians.
I voted No.
@Ken
Studies have proven, and there is hard, factual evidence in history that marrying (and thus reproducing, as a result) within the same gene pool and bloodline causes genetic deformities and disorders. British royalty noticed this centuries ago and the practice ceased. Other evidence can be found if you consider ‘hillbillies’ and mountain men as factual. Your turn, and I had better hear factual evidence.
@BuckyBager
That is correct, sir or madam.
@amel
Please go to your nearest dictionary and look up ‘prejudice’. That should get you on the way to noticing how juvenile and immature you sound.
TheTruth,
You sound smart….
Is it my civil right to marry my daughter? If not, explain in detail why not.
well its nity nite time so peace out yallll
amel
well if you are smart then you better step it up i mean your puncuation is off you idiot,
ya unhappy im sorry totaly unnecesary aha……
Someone earlier had this to say:
“I do not understand. Prop 8 is not a “marriage issue.” It is a human issue. ”
This is the same argument the opponents of Proposition 8 have used all along and it is based on a basic lie. This issue is NOT about restricting the “right” of consenting adults to engage in legally recognized unions that carry specific legal advantages and responsibilities. This is about the definition of marriage. Voting YES on proposition 8 does not discriminate against homosexual couples, it doesn’t deprive people of rights, etc. etc. etc. All that is just outright garbage that is being used by those opposed to the proposition in order to try and bend public opinion to their cause, by lying to them and casting this as a human right issue. Let’s be clear on this: homosexual couples have civil unions. This is not about trying to ban their relationships or trying to deny them legal recognition of the same. To cast this in those terms is a basic fallacy. To cast the proponents of 8 as haters, bigots, and the like is another basic fallacy. This is about the definition of marriage, pure and simple, and marriage is a heterosexual institution.
What people really should be asking themselves is this: why are these homosexual activists so intent on being able to call heir unions “marriages” instead of “unions”? Why, when a civil union confers the same rights as a marriage, is the TERM so important? What is the real, underlying issue? That issue is this: acceptance and equivalence. The real issue is not at all about denying human rights, subjugating people, etc… it is about the agenda to force our society to recognize homosexual lifestyles as every bit the equivalent of heterosexual ones, on every level, in every respect. This is about social engineering with the ultimate objective of creating a society where homosexuality is just considered another normal every day thing and where any voices to the contrary are marginalized, thwarted, threatened, and legislated out of existence. At it’s root, this isn’t about human rights at all, it’s about one group of humans trying to assert THEIR rights over another so that their lifestyle choices can be accorded a forced respect and legitimacy which they have not otherwise earned, and so that they can forcefully extinguish the voices of those who disagree. THAT is what this is about; the human rights issue is just a smoke screen, and it is a disgraceful and deceitful manipulation of our good will as voters and citizens.
Unhappy,
I ask you about civil rights and you come back with genetics… ???
Dude, get a grip…
Let me repost in case you missed something… and lets assume I have been fixed, so you can leave kids out of your answer.
Is it my civil right to marry my daughter? If not, explain in detail why not.
Fire away!
San Fran:
No on victims rights: let’s protect the criminals
No on abortion notification for a minor: let’s allow minors to get abortions without their parents consent
Yes on drug offenses: Dealers need therapy, not incarceration…oh ok.
No on Gay Marriage: nuff said.
What a worthless city.
well maybe i dont have to worry bout a teacher checkin ma work right now ….i feel free
Prop 8 doesn’t ban Gay “Marriage”, it establishes the traditional definition of Marriage as a life bond between one man and one woman in order to form a family. There is no language in it that bans anything. This is just disinformation from people who don’t believe in the sanctity of marriage. Marriage isn’t a right. It is a cessation of rights.
“Of all the phony arguments for gay marriage, the phoniest is the argument that it is a matter of equal rights. Marriage is not a right extended to individuals by the government. It is a restriction on the rights they already have.”
“The issue is not individual rights. What the activists are seeking is official social approval of their lifestyle. But this is the antithesis of equal rights.
If you have a right to someone else’s approval, then they do not have a right to their own opinions and values. You cannot say that what “consenting adults” do in private is nobody else’s business and then turn around and say that others are bound to put their seal of approval on it.”
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell010305.asp
Prop 4 and Prop 8 should pass. Parents should know when their minor child is having an abortion and have a say in it,
And 4 unelected/unaccountable judges should not usurp Legislative powers and overturn the will of the majority of California citizens.
If you want Gay “Marriage”, do it the Constitutional way. Get a majority of citizens to vote for it legally. Stealing it is not the way to get societal approval. All the judges did was set back the Gay Movement by years because they polarized the citizenry by over-riding their will. Force isn’t the answer.
No, marriage is NOT necessarily a religious institution. HOLY MATRIMONY is, but marriage should also be an event that is a civil right. God did not “hand down marriage”–do you realize that marriage (in churches) in medieval Europe was reserved only for royalty or the wealthy to make sure their wealth and power was “kept in the right hands?” I think if the Mormons hadn’t been forced to resign their plural marriages a hundred years ago (in order to be allowed statehood), they might still support polygamy–and they are the largest supporters of 8! Talk about hypocrisy! And their precious children that they’ve been trying to protect from hearing about the horrors of gay marriage? Well after dragging them out to hold signs and wave at cars, you can be sure those kiddies know all about the issue.
Ken, don’t be ridiculous–of course you can’t marry your daughter. Incest has never been nor will it ever be acceptable. We’re talking about two consenting, informed adults. Stop being so simplistic!
Denying civil rights is unconstitutional. This WILL be overturned at some point. Just like interracial marriage used to be outlawed in some states, the checks and balances of our government will ultimately be able to ensure the rights of the minority against the wishes of a SMALL majority. I hope this happens before some of you find out your kids are gay!
OCTeach - beautifully said.
Prop 8 actually opened the door for me to speak more to my kids about gay marriage. My bestfriend, and auntie to my kids, just married her partner of 14 years two weeks ago. I think it is amazing that in this day and age, people can be together for 12 years and still want to be together and love each other so whole-heartedly. That is more than I can say for many of my friends and their parents.
The fact is, Prop. 8 is a religion-driven initiative and people are using thie belief in God to deny other people their rights.
Personally, I do not believe that religion should exist within the confines of politics, as my religion is not your religion. So how can I force my religious views on others and their rights. I have never understood why people vote or enforce laws based upon their individual faith. It is just that, individual faith. They should keep it that way…to themselves.
Ken, you changed from marrying your daughter to having it be a civil right. The last I saw, gay marriage and marrying your daughter were two entirely separate ideas.
Civil right? Would a government allow it’s citizens to corrupt the gene pool and willingly create genetic deformities? I think not.
And, before you say homosexuality is a deformity, do some research on the feminization of the fetus in the womb.
I think both a man and woman are needed to raise a healthy child. Especially boys, they need a positive male role model. A boy needs a man to teach him how to be a man. Thats a fathers job, a woman cannot do it. And it goes both ways, girls need a mother. I believe there is a reason that it takes one man and one woman to create a child. It’s because it takes both a man and a woman to raise a child. Im not against gay marriage, but i think theres a reason two men or two women cannot have babies together.
Bree 25, I have to say your message is a bit of rambling there. I tried and I cannot understand what your saying or which side your on. I would like to comment however on your statement that the Bible is open for interpretation. That isn’t correct. Actuality of the Bible is you pray and talk with God as you read it and he reveals it. You don’t interpret the words how you see fit. You won’t ever get it with that approach. Why do you think so many people don’t get it, because they want to interpret it. Not be in it.
man unhappy and ken are going at it…..im go get some popcorn aha
Ken
while you have asked this question to most,
I find it rather insulting and disturbing you could even refer to a civil right in means of incest.
I have heard beastiality and incest in comparison to homosexuality…
i which being a homosexual is along the same lines of having sexual tendencies toward a daughter or a domestic animal.
research probably wouldn’t hurt, retouching knowledge of homosexuality might clue you in a tad more.
so may I ask what color eyes you have?
because that has about just as much relevence as your comparison.
Ken, no one’s answering your question because it’s a stupid question. Incest is illegal, with or without a marriage license. Same-sex relationships between consenting adults are entirely legal. So, obviously, you cannot marry your daughter, even though you seem to have the hots for her, and I think you should probably seek help for that.
I just want to know when you all chose to be straight… because you all seem to think that our lifestyle could affect your children into choosing thier sexuality… So when did you decide?
On beastiality, and pedophilia… I don’t think either qualify as consenting adults that can enter a contract willingly.
And on Polygamy… I don’t choose that for myself, but I think maybe what someone else wants or needs in a relationship isn’t my say.
Don’t forget how many influential god fearing men in the bible had multiple wives now.
hold on u guys are all on ken for his comparision come on now
Unhappy AND Sancmom,
Both hypocrites!!!
Neither of you will admit it is my CIVIL RIGHT to marry my daughter.
Neither of you can tell me why it is wrong? (leave out science, I already said no kids, duh)
Both of you KNOW it’s GROSS.
Admit it’s GROSS. It’s WRONG. It does NOT have to be explained does it?
Same with Prop 8 - Get a clue
It’s sad that so many people bought into the fear and lies perpetuated by the Yes on 8 side. If this thing passes, and it still might not, it did not do so honorably. That is a shame.
All of you who voted yes, please take a minute and put yourself in the shoes of 16,000 couple, who in good faith, took the vows of matrimony. Can you? Imagine if it were you. What if a large group decided to say we no longer recognize the marriage of Catholics, or Mormons, or latinos, or whomever. That is the slippery slope Prop 8 creates. It says, by a simple majority, we can remove whatever rights we see fit.
Regardless of the outcome, California is wounded by Prop 8.
What is marriage about? The paperwork? The frivelous lawsuits? The need for the ACLU in our living room?
Any homosexual can be married wherever they want, have a ceremony, have a honeymoon, and live together as a couple even if Prop 8 passes. The only difference is involving lawyers and createing more radical agenda. Duh!
Why is the homo-agenda to go beyond what we all think is important with marriage- see first paragraph? The only reason is an agenda for beyond acceptance that currently exists and to leap another step toward discrimination lawsuits, more voter apathy, then a glee club certificate before you can graduate. This is not fear, just get out of my face!
After Prop 8 passes, go have a ceremony, exchange rings, live together and be a great neighbor and fit in. Get out of our TV and get away from our children. Just go gay-off and do whaterver you do and get on with life.
goood nite evry boddday
Lizard,
“Ken, no one’s answering your question because it’s a stupid question. Incest is illegal, with or without a marriage license. Same-sex relationships between consenting adults are entirely legal. So, obviously, you cannot marry your daughter, even though you seem to have the hots for her, and I think you should probably seek help for that.”
Ok, let me use YOUR logic.
“Gay people, you CANNOT marry because it’s ILLEGAL!!!”"”
Man, you just keep digging…
Have tolerance. marriage is between man and women. no alternative lifestyles in the schools. stop pushing the gay propaganda. have respect for my view
“Is it my civil right to marry my daughter?”
Who knows? Now that you’ve passed one pointless initiative, maybe you can pass another.
Gay marriage is not about human rights. Gay people have civil unions - by changing the rhetoric the opponents of 8 have altered the discourse and cast the issue in deceptive terms.
The question should be asked “why is it so important to call your union a “marriage”? Marriage, in contrast to what some people here argue, is fundamentally a religious tradition. In fact, societal recognition of matrimony is a civil recognition of a religious principle. So, instead of trying to ask “why do the religious nuts want to deny others a “right” to “marry”, why not ask “why do the non-religious folks want a marriage rather than a civil union?” What is the actual objective?
No on hate.
The Truth,
It does not matter is the point, making something my civil right does not make it any less GROSS. Period.
Ken, your question cannot be answer, because it uses flawed logic. You’re talking about rice and beans and I’m talking about soup and salads. What’s worse, I think you know it’s flawed, and you’re doing it to make yourself look right.
Disgusting.
I agree Evan, No on hate
And maybe after Ken passes his “marrying his daughter” initiative, maybe he can pass initatives that’ll allow him to simultaneously be married to his dog.
It’s all about definition. A marriage is a man and a woman, period.
Here’s a lowbrow example to illustrate:
Pleasing someone orally is not sex. It’s oral sex… Anal sex isn’t sex either, it’s sticking a peepee in someone’s rectum. Sticking a peepee in someone’s mouth or ear or armpit isn’t sex either. It’s only a peepee going into a vagina that’s called sex.
Ken, you’re not too bright, are you?
Let me try again.
Marrying your daughter is (and will remain) illegal because HAVING A SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR DAUGHTER IS ILLEGAL.
Having such a relationship with another man would not be illegal (try it!). Thus, the comparison is ridiculous and invalid.
Cassidy
And as you read, have been answered concerning homosexuality?
because interpretation is what your “pray[ing] and talking with God” is.
Evan’s right…No on hate, but yes on eight!!
Boys should not date boys.
epi, that works both ways. You should stop pushing your view onto mine. Unfortunately, that’s democracy.
Ken, your arguments keep getting more and more flawed. You sounded better at the start of the conversation.
“making something my civil right does not make it any less GROSS”
…..aaaaand the truth comes out from our friend Ken.
You’re not worried about civil rights or a “slippery slope.” You think gay people are gross and you wish you didn’t have to think about them.
Grow up.
ttupper - you said it all brother! Nice job!
8 Wins…and so does Apple!
Unhappy,
Double talk alot?
I am going to bed now. You understand my point perfectly even though you will not admit it.
No biggie, as long as you UNDERSTAND.
Look, people are grossed out by Gay people. How the hell you going to change that? Shoot them? Put them in jail?
Accept REALITY and move on, stop whining, get a life.
That’s the best solution!
God bless you, and I want you to be happy, I mean that more than you know friend.
I struggled 40 years, glad it’s over!!!
Everyone have a great morning and thanks for the debate!
It’s so simple!!!
Marriage is between a man and a woman. It is the way things were designed.
We have allowed the perverted to have a ‘civil union’ - but that ain’t good enough, I guess. Homosexual relationships are wrong. Nature tells you that. Respect the holy union of marrige.
People are grossed out by BIGOTS, Ken.
my two cents
So, by your definition, absolutely nothing is wrong with homosexuality. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with one man laying a hand on another or a woman on another, because they’re not having sex.
BIGOT…that’s another buzz word!!!
Brea25, Dude
Does this make sense to you. work with me here, I’m not getting it.
Read what you wrote again, It’s right here.
Cassidy
And as you read, have been answered concerning homosexuality?
because interpretation is what your “pray[ing] and talking with God” is.
Do you have a point, Rich? Actually—no, you don’t. Never mind.
“How is my marriage, with all the challenges and joys that come from modern life, in any way imperiled by the marriage of another couple? How is what we do in our own home — make dinner, do laundry, make love, discuss where to place the couch — in any way touched by other people doing more or less the same thing in their own homes? I find this argument mystifying.”
From a very recent news article. This is the root of the problem.
sure I do…if someone dosen’t agree with you, you resort to name-calling to shut them down. Bigot, Intolerant, Homophobic, Hate; none of which is true. But hey, no-one wants to be known as a bigot, etc. so Good job!!
The truth is a lie . If San Francisco was on fire I wouldn’t piss on it to put it out .
Well I’m off to bed, I have a suggestion. Wake up in the morning and think, How can I spread a little love, even to those who don’t like me. Or just continue to live your lives with hate and anger. This is a heated topic but what the world needs now is love sweet love to quote from an old song. Hope ya’ll figure it out before you wake up and have ran out of time. There’s more to life than petty BS arguments about stuff that won’t matter when you pass away.
Peace,
Cass
And as you read, have YOU been answered concerning homosexuality?
and interpretation…is what you do when you pray and talk with God.
but my message was not about what everybody interprets,
but I mean the STUDY of the Bible,
I don’t mean to sound condescending
but there is controversy within the Christian religion
where what it means is being studied by those of actual noteworthy ideologists.
not just within your Church’s beliefs.
Everyone is entitled to what the believe…
but that should not interfere with the lives of others.
period.
Rich, if somebody doesn’t agree with you, do you burn them at the stake or dunk them in a river to see if they float?
Rich, Ken said all gay people were gross. I said bigots were gross. I suppose you just forgot to scold Ken for his statement, hmmm?
Calnative, we understand. Your fire hose isn’t up to the job. Heh.
California wasn’t always a freak show …….It happened when they let the brain dead in .
UnhappyHusband, we’re surrounded by people who are governed by fear and paranoia. Their children and grandchildren will be embarrassed someday by their attitudes. Keep the faith—equality will win out in the end.
Nonsense. That is NOT the root of the problem. Let me give you a little history lesson.
A few years ago when civil unions were pushed through, everyone on the defense of marriage side knew exactly what was coming next, and they all said it too: next it will be a push to get homosexual marriage instead of gay unions. They were all roundly dismissed as cranks and bigots.
But, here we are, just a few years later.
UnhappyHusband, you are deceived. You are deceived because someone came up to you and with a lot of smooth talking they convinced you to agree with them that they were being oppressed because they were denied the use of a term. That’s right: a TERM. And you have foolishly entered into that agreement without bothering to consider just WHY that is so gosh darn important to them.
You got lied to and you swallowed that lie hook line and sinker. You would do very well to examine your thinking on this. When did telling someone they can’t call their civil union a marriage get defined as a human rights violation? The whole discourse of this debate has been bent and skewed by the judiciary - quite intentionally I might add - so as to bring about a desired end, and the whole thing has been done right in your face. You’ve had people lie to you outright and you’ve been convinced by their arguments even though at a very basic level they all rest on a lie.
That’s the root of the problem.
To those who claim that marriage is required to rear children, how do you explain all the children born out of wedlock (Palins daughters’ soon to be child is an excellent example). Oh wait, I forgot that is the typical Christian thing to do. Ignore everything that doesn’t conform to your views.
God said Adam and Eve
not I repeat not Adam and Steve–
Lizard huh ……Isn’t that something that slithers real low to the ground?
I apologize, I’m still not getting it bro. I guess your just to smart for me. I will say this, Your right, God gave us free will so we wouldn’t be puppets. You do have the right to believe whatever you want but i would be very careful about a decision to turn away from God. That takes more balls than anything in this crazy thing we call life and death.
LizardOC, you’re correct.
This newer generation is far more liberal and open to equality than the older ones. Given time, I estimate 20-30 years at the most, we’ll all be completely equal.
Ken signed off; didn’t see the point.
About the stake and river thing; that’s not even worthy of a response. love the sarcasm though!!
ttupper
You couldn’t be further from the truth. And, if you want to throw lies around, look to your bible and your church; there are millions right there in front of you, in your face, and you believe all of it because you’re told it’s true.
It works both ways.
Gays already have domestic partnerships, so why do they need it to be called marriage? Why not increase the rights of domestic parterships, if you so wish? When they changed the marriage license application to Party 1 and Party 2 instead of Bride and Groom, that was an insult to marriage and to tradition. I asked my brother (who is Gay) if he was going to get married to his long term partner of over 30 years and he said there was no reason to as they already had a domestic partership. They are also already in each other’s living trusts (and Power of Attorney, etc.), that also gives each of them the right’s to make medical decisions, etc. for the other. He never had the desire to make himself appear more straight by taking on the straight man’s institution. He had no problem with my voting Yes on Prop. 8.
Marriage, in its true sense should not be part of a country claiming to have a separation between church and state, therefore should not even be on a ballot to vote on. Since majority of all marriages occur in a church setting and under a misguided notion; any one entering a marriage of religious ties should have their dissolutions handled by that religious congregation. But, conveniantly, the “tie” became so impossible for the churches to handle, because of its misguided notion, that the state had to step in and forcefully apply laws that applies to dissolutions of business partnerships. Since this is a fact, and true; religious freaks should not have a say-so in whom enters in a union because it is a union accountable to state laws…it’s a legal binding document that will uphold in a court of law. Who are you to say who can and cannot enter that union? And, most importantly: Why do you care? Does it affect you? Are you worried about your own kids sexual orientation and hope this will prevent them to act out the feelings they were born with? Who’s behind this ballot, anyway? Tipper Gore? Sounds like another U.S wack job that will be laughed at for generations to come.
Remove any religious ties to the government, make a complete separation from these nutcases.
Ken: Interesting point, but completly beside the point since marriage is a religious/cult ceremony. Since this country has a freedom of expression and freedom to practice any religious beliefs; hope you don’t mind if I take a few passages from the Holy Dribble and set you straight. Incest is clearly defined as a sin…but so is; smoking, drinking, adultry, greed, swearing, fornication, uncleanness, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries…interesting, huh? I bet you have committed all these acts at one point or another, especially “selfish ambitions” which you are doing by denying others to take part in what you consider your right because of your preference. Just because you are a nutjob with special benefits from the government doesn’t mean you’re better than any one else, pal.
To Richard: Yes, couldn’t agree with you more. Let us all get our own marriages and have them upheld by the state with the same benefits your freak show of beliefs are getting. I’m sure we can lure a priest to that type of scenario…as long as the choireboys practices are run by that priest.
Happy voting, nutjobs
It was intended as sarcasm, Rich. A little dark, but sarcastic nonetheless. : P
Everyone just chill…. There are lots of ballots still not counted for. Last I checked, the votes for “No’s” are ticking up and making a comeback against those for prop 8.
Equality isn’t something you buy or can achieve through legal means …..Some people have intelligence & some are morons . They will never be equal .
It’s not about that, Jill. It’s about equality. Denying something to somebody while offering it automatically to others is not equality.
No no, absolutely incorrect. The basic lie is that proposition 8 seeks to defraud people of a right. That’s an established lie, and a common argumentative tactic: change the discourse to change the outcome.
Proposition 8 defines marriage. Proposition 8 does not ban relationships. Proposition 8 does not even deprive people of legal protections, nor confer unequal responsibility. The biggest lie in this whole debate is the lie that Proposition 8 prevents gay men and women from establishing legally recognized life unions with the partner of their choice. It does not, so in fact when you insist in casting the argument in these terms you are promulgated and advancing that basic lie.
PROP 8 IS GOING BACK TO THE COURTS WHERE IT WILL YET AGAIN BE OVERTURNED BY THE STATE SUPREME COURT AND THEN THE PRO PROP 8 FOLKS WILL LIKELY TAKE IT ALL THE WAY TO THE US SUPREME COURT WHERE IT WILL ALSO FAIL.
NO ON PROP 8–
WIN NOW or WIN IN A COUPLE OF YEARS
EITHER WAY…SAME-SEX MARRIAGE IS HERE TO STAY
No one is denied the right to marry, it just has to be between a man and a woman. For same sex couples it is just called domestic partnership. My gay brother has never wanted to be equal to a straight man, but he is more comfortable with himself I guess than some others.
Close minded folks brings out the best in orange county. If the majority of you did not have a right to vote, perhaps our nation would be better off.
ttupper– here are some more lies for you:
1. churches would have to permit same-sex marriages whether they like it or not. NOT TRUE.
2. children will be taught about same-sex marraige in school
NOT TRUE: local school districts establish curriculum.
3. each and every right set forth in marriage is available in civil unions
ALSO NOT TRUE.
More importantly, the US Supreme Court long ago said that “separate is not equal”.
Prop 8, if it passes is just going to immediately go back to the courts via the challenges to it that will ikely be filed on WEDNESDAY by Equality California.
We all know what will happen from there.
Being a follower of Jesus,, I am often times saddened by the way some Christians/religious folks resort to use disrespectful and sometimes hateful words to illustrate their point. May I remind you that this is not how Jesus would’ve resolved it. For me personally, I do not hate gays nor am I offended by them. As a matter of fact, my God commanded me to love all people, and yes including the gay folks. This I do, not out of blind obedience, but from my heart. And neither do I consider myself any more righteous, because there has been several times in my life where I’ve also errored. There was an incident in the bible where Jesus rescued a prostitute from the religious stone-throwers of the day. Jesus then turned to the woman and said “woman, where are your accusers? Go, and sin no more.”. I think this story illustrates the very heart of God towards those who are homosexual. God had love and compassion for them, even though it is wrong (or should I say, not the life that is intended to be lived for true happiness) .
Consider the real life story of Charlene Cothran, whom for years has lived and endorsed the lesbian way of life. So much so, that she became an activist and the founder of a lesbian magazine called Venus. However, one day it dawned on her that her lifestyle was not right. She asked God for help and with the help and love of other true believers,was able to now have a new life and mission, to save those whom she felt are lost.
I personally voted yes, but neither do I try to convince those who want to vote no from changing their minds. From the beginning, God has always respected the decisions of people. And whatever the outcome may be, I’m not going to hate or bring down anyone who disagrees with me, but simply to love people as God would love them.
to redinorange:
“To the person who wrote to make an arguement without bringing in God or religion, I ask this question, where in all of nature( and please do not use asexual plants or animals) does it occur that male/male or female/female relationships occur over a long period of time?”
Penguins have been documented to have life-long homosexual relationships, complete with “adopting” egg-shaped rocks as their offspring and carrying them long distances just as the heterosexual penguins do during their migration after mating.
Do some research before making ignorant accusations.
NO ON PROP 8! - and yes, I am a straight woman.
This proposition has nothing to do with marriage (and for all you bible-bumpers, religious organizations were created by man to give themselves a reason to live a prosperous and fulfilling life). This proposition has to do with human rights. Everyone that has stated that “if this proposition passes what is going to keep me from marrying my dog, my jaw bone, etc.” that is just plainly ignorant. If your reasoning for that is that you can’t reproduce with your dog, then how do you feel about sterile men and women. If I love a sterile man, should we not be allowed to marry? If I have ovarian cancer and cannot have children, should I be banned from marrying? If my husband is killed, should I not be allowed to be a mother to our child because there isn’t a man and a woman raising our offspring?
How do you feel about interracial marriage? If you say you’re against it, I sure as hell hope you are 100% designated to one specific heriritage… which is nearly impossible today. Who, I doubt anyone, do you know that can say that they are 100% American? No one, outside of Native American tribes, because this is a country of acceptance, freedom, and choice. This is a country that left England centuries ago to fight oppression and religious discrimination.
Discrimination is defined as: treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit. Religious views are not even defined in this statement. ..”IN FAVOR OF OR AGAINST, A PERSON OR THING BASED ON THE GROUP, CLASS, OR CATEGORY TO WHICH THAT PERSON OR THING BELONGS RATHER THAN ON INDIVIDUAL MERIT.” It doesn’t say ‘rather than on religious views.’ It doesn’t say ‘rather than socially acceptable phobias.’ Religion is not an issue.
We are not telling you to divorce your wife and marry a gay man. We are not telling you to take your child to a gay marriage so they can grow up thinking that gay marriage is the only way. We are asking that you accept those around you. We are asking that you don’t keep a gay woman from being able to make a decision to take her partner of 45 years off of life support. We are asking that you allow gay married couples to receive the same tax benefits that every married straight couple receives. We are asking that you accept other human beings as just that, HUMAN BEINGS.
The Catholic church does not allow divorce.. but I wonder how many of these Yes on 8 posters are divorced. Do you all still go to church on Christmas as Easter? You shouldn’t. Not according to the Catholic Church. You shouldn’t even step into a church. Now, how is it OK to be a hypocrite on those basis, but not OK for true and happy members of the gay community to be married to be accepted? We’re not saying that gays should be automatically allowed to get married in the church. Most of them wouldn’t anyway, because they DO respect religion, despite what you Yessers think. Religious decisions are to be left to the religious leaders.
I’m ashamed that this proposition is looking as though it will pass. Look at how much progress we have made by electing Barack Obama. Why can’t we vote for human rights? Why can’t everyone be equal once and for all?
ttupper,
You sound, or are trying to sound, like a lawyer.
Pretty words and clearly defined opinions don’t work on me. The proposition states that marriage is defined as being only between a man and a woman. That eliminates gay marriage as a side effect, if not absolutely directly.
In fact, you might even have opened up a few loopholes…I’ll have to go read it again, more closely.
We all know fair and well why the proposition was brought up in the first place. We know who started the proposition and why. Wording, that’s all it is. It might not specifically say ‘ban gay marriage’ but it explicitly states it, bans it, and makes it illegal.
Gay marriage was LEGALIZED in May. This proposition will make it ILLEGAL. Clever wording, but it means the same thing.
There’s no need for any argument.
Prop 8 is going back to the courts (if its lead translates into a win).
The CA State Supreme Court will rule that it is unconstitutional yet again.
It will go to the US Supreme Court where it will also lose (Justice Kennedy, the swing justice, has already spoken in favor of gay marriage). And with President Obama, we know any of the justices who retire will be replaced with sympathetic justices.
So, why get all hot and bothered on either side?
Same sex marriage is here to stay no matter how the vote turns out.
That’s just the way it is.
Yeah we have nothin’ else better to do with tax dollars right!
Actually it was overturned because the state requirement is 2 votes of the people. This is the second vote and was put on the ballot because of that. It won’t be overturned again if this passes. Per Arnold
I voted yes on 8. In time the people who want the gay marriages would force the churches to perform gay marriages. According to you it would be discrimination and you wouldn’t allow that. That would be your next move. You have your partnerships, be happy with that. You have the same rights as a married person under those laws. Don’t try and force you ideas on the church.
Jill: So you say it’s just over the name “marriage”? What religion has copyrights on that name?
Let me start off by saying for thoses people out their that are bringing the bible into this the only thing jesus said was that “we should love one another” and well shouldn’t we?? Now as towards the bible IT WAS CREATED BY MAN and therefore when has man been known to be right. The bible says that we should not sleep with our brothers and sisters right yet what about adam and eve?? Read the bible before you open your mouth please and quit hating
So your telling me that the 1st graders that were taking to watch their lesbian teachers get married didnt teach them anything?
it was in every major newspaper in California that they were taken to the wedding. so you can’t say it didnt happen.
Oh and so its ok for us to discriminate and not let a man marry 3 women. but its not ok for us to discriminate and let a man marry a man??
how does that work? what if all 4 of them were consenting adults?
Im praying that Yes on 8 passes.
Jill, don’t throw around ad hominem. It’s not nice.
Do I feel uncomfortable knowing my relationship to my partner is defined as not being equal, and that as less than to that of yours? You’re damn right.
“It’s not about that, Jill. It’s about equality”
YES, it is. But not in the terms you cast it. Our society is based upon concepts that I cannot discriminate against or treat you differently because I disagree with your ideology, your gender, your faith, your skin color, etc. I cannot foreclose you from basic protections and rights based on those things.
The supporters of gay marriage have cleverly cast gay marriage as a “right” so that they can lay the claim “this is about equality” with respect to the right to form legally recognized life partnerships with the person of one’s choice. But in fact, that isn’t true, because that right was not in question even before the judiciary took the steps to define the battle in these present terms.
In this respect, however, your argument that “it’s about equality” is completely true - it is. But not in the way you represent. Rather, this is about an insistence that we agree that one’s choices and manner of living is equal. This is about a demand not that gays and lesbians receive “equality” to be married, but rather it is in reality about a demand that there be agreement that their lifestyles “are equivalent.”
Deshard: so the vote of the people means nothing. You will force your views on others weather they like it or not? Would you force the churches to perform gay marriages if they refuse and follow their own beliefs?
cassidy– that’s a load of crap. Go to any of the political websites and you’ll learn the truth. There is no such thing as 2 passages equals the right to not be challenged again in court.
JohnB– that’s just blatantly not true. California law permits churches to not permit same-sex marriages. The only reason there were problems for churches in Mass and NJ is because the ltitgation involved cases where the churches ACCEPTED STATE MONEY for church services. To continue to receive the state money, they had to comply with state discrimination laws. They’re welcome to deny same-sex couples marriage permits, etc., as long as they don’t don business with the state.
That’s exactly how it was. You, like most prop 8 supporters, need to get the facts as opposed to listen to the henny pennys in your church.
But again, it’s all moot as Prop 8 will be challenged yet again and the legal briefs against it will likely be filed as early as TOMORROW by Equality California.
So, in the words of the great Gavin Newsom, SAME-SEX MARRIAGE IS HERE TO STAY. We either win tomorrown, or we win when the State Supreme Court ruels inour favor yet again.
YOu can take that to the bank.
Cassidy, any supreme court can take any part of the constitution it has jurisdiction over and claim it is unconstitutional, no matter how many times it has passed or failed. Arnold might not be able to veto, but the court still has power to declare it unconstitutional.
53% in favor now with almost 50% of the precincts reporting. I just wish I could say to Gavin Newsome right now: “It’s gonna happen! Whether they like it or not!”
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it, friggin tool!
Deshard : and someone will turn it around and say because churches are tax exempt, they should lose that exemption. What they did to the scouts they will try and do to the churches. The same line used on the scouts will be used against the churches. Mark my words, it’s only a matter of time.
John B- the vote of the people? If the current numbers hold up, a little over half?
This is going to surprise you, but most gay people don’t want to get married in churches that don’t welcome us. THose who try to will wake up the cold hard reality that CA law permits churches to deny access to same-sex couples and that’s not about to change unless said church does business with tthe state, like for ex., Catholic Charities did in Mass. by accepting state money to run its adoption services program. Catholic Charities chose to pull out of the adoption business when they could have continued by using their own money (as the Mormon Church in Mass. still does to this day).
So, there John B., some more facts for you to chew on.
ttupper
By mentioning lifestyles clearly defines your ignorance of homosexuality. If you don’t understand that, you don’t understand our plight. You choose only what you want to believe; it works both ways.
get over your self and quit using other peoples material
I dont want the disease to be easily spread. Yes on 8
I voted “no”. I’m straight. I don’t believe in God. I believe that qualifies me to an opinion. Scratch that… being human (and a California resident) qualifies me.
What I don’t understand is why people are trying so hard to prevent something that doesn’t apply to them. No one’s asking to change any status for straight people regarding marriage. The consideration is to allow/prevent another group from joining in the mix. No one wants to be treated differently, and even though it’s damn hard, we should all try to stop doing just that. The world would honestly be a much happier place.
I doubt very seriously that “the church” is very happy about my lack of “faith” — but I’m still allowed to marry. In fact, anyone of any religion on the planet is allowed to marry another of an entirely different religion (or none at all) without question… you don’t even have to be married in a church, or by any “man of faith” either. So, why has this deteriorated into a religious debate? If it were a purely religious event, it wouldn’t be allowed to take place in a courthouse in front of a judge… or in a car held by an Elvis impersonator in Las Vegas for that matter!
Homosexuals want the right to marry because everyone else has that right and telling them they can’t do it is simply discrimination. Why do you care if a pair of dudes or chicks wants to marry? It’s not going to change your life — only theirs. Stop being so narrow-minded and there will be much less war, hate, anger, etc. in the world. Let people be happy. If “marriage” makes them happy, how does that hurt you? Can you not just live your life without worrying about things that don’t directly affect you? Imagine how it would be if two people you don’t know marry… straight or gay… how does this affect your daily life? In fact, how has it affected you so far since it’s been going on for several years now?
Homosexuals aren’t going away… feel free to teach your children about them in your own way, hopefully in a fair and tolerant manner, just as you’d teach them about any other subset of the population… and stop worrying that they’re going to somehow manipulate your kids into “joining their side” — believe it or not, they don’t actively recruit! Just be happy with your own life and stop worrying about everyone else.
Hey Deshard, The law in the state of California to change an amendment is, you need 2 votes of the public. That’s the law. Californians can fight or challenge anything they want. I was just telling you what the law is. Your very angry and condesending. I’m also noticing a very matter of fact about you, not much humility and love. Why is that?
Deshard: you said, “They’re welcome to deny same-sex couples marriage permits, etc., as long as they don’t don business with the state.”….right there you’ve already started putting up a fight with the churches. You’re trying to put limits on what the church can do, until they do as YOU say.
In the words of Ronald Reagan, JohnB: there you go again.
The Boy Scouts are welcome to discriminate against gays as long as they don’t accept state money. If they remain a privately funded organization, they can continue to deny gays to serve as scoutmasters.
Note to BZ:you’re a fool. Gavin is right. Same-sex marriage is here to stay no matter the outcome of Prop 8 at the polls.
It’s going back to the courts. Briefs will likely be filed tomorrow by Equality CA and we know what happens from there.
JohnB: what don’t you understand about the fact that churches can continue to deny access to same-sex couples exactly as they do now because most churches don’t take money from the state.
Your arguments are so flimsy and based in the fear your pastor spews at you on Sundays and Wednesday nights.
If Yes on 8 passes, consider it 5 GIANT steps backwards for California for discrimination.
Deshard, so now you want to dictate where state money goes because some people do not agree with you on gays being married? Talk about intolerence. LOL
“Do I feel uncomfortable knowing my relationship to my partner is defined as not being equal”
And therein lies the rub of this entire thing. THAT is the actual objective of this entire endeavor: you want to create circumstances where those around you will be forced to agree with you that your lifestyle is in every way equivalent to and equal to their own, and where people are not free to impinge on your ability to feel that everyone agrees with you.
Listen: you have a right to be with the person you choose. You have a right to live free from intimidation and harm. You may even have a right to a legal recognition of your relationship that confers on you the same rights and responsibilities as anyone else. But your rights do not extend to your ability to feel equal. Your right to not *feel* different does not extend to or impinge on my right to respectfully disagree.
To put it simply, your right to live a life free of discrimination does not extend into a right to force myself or others to agree with you that your lifestyle choices are equivalent from a moral or social perspective.
I guess not all gays feel the same way. My brother has never felt the need to make himself more straight. He has all the legality in place to protect his domestic partership. He has never wanted to be more like a straight man, so doesn’t need his domestic partnership to be called marriage. Personally, I always thought he thought he was just a little bit better.
I love my brother and I respect how comfortable he is in his own skin (he’s not Christian either). He has always rejoiced in being different….even back when that wasn’t that popular. Prop. 8, if it passes won’t affect his relationship at all. Though as California has a Democrat majority, if it passes, it will have passed with a majority of Democratic votes.
Cassidy– you’d do well to go back to school and take a civics course so you can learn how the Judicial System and the Ballot Measure system work together.
You’d also do well to take a spelling class or at least figure out how to use spell-check. Your comments make you sound even more ignorant than you are. Or maybe not.
Sioux: I call it a line in the sand
The people have spoken where the limits are.
Jill, I’m thrilled for your brotherk, but he doesn’t speak for the millions of California’s who believe that gays and lesbians are protected by the Equal Protections Clause of the state Constitution.
It doesn’t matter what the breakdown of the pro 8 voters party lines are.
It is ironic, though, that many who voted for Prop 8 have been divorced, some more than once, and many have had illegitimate children, some more than once with more than one man and yet somehow two committed gay people are viewed by some (but nearly all) as the threat to marriage. A little ironic, really pathetic.
Jill, if prop 8 fails and the supporters gay marriages have their way, domestic partnerships would be done away with. Gays in partnerships would have to get married. Believe me, their agenda is to force everyone to accept thier life style. A domestic partnership would not be equal to a marriage to them, they would have to be abandoned.
Johnb: the first truth you’ve uttered. It’s nothing more than a line in the sand.
Whether by water or by another foot, it’ll be redrawn or made gone.
Same-sex marriage is here to stay. Either Prop 8 fails or it wins and goes back to the courts lickkety-split.
Deshard - if you were so confident of that, you wouldn’t be furiously typing away all evening, now would you? Nice try though…
And interesting that you think a scumbag like Gavin Newsom, who cheated on his wife then got remarried less than a year later, is “great” <- your words. Doesn’t sound like either one of you has much respect for marriage.
Damian
Exactly. It has nothing to do with them, and they have the right to refuse us marriage in their church. That’s the issue, here, and some people have a hard time accepting that we’re here to stay, as we have been just as long as there have been heterosexuals.
Deshard Says:
It is ironic, though, that many who voted for Prop 8 have been divorced, some more than once, and many have had illegitimate children, some more than once with more than one man and yet somehow two committed gay people are viewed by some (but nearly all) as the threat to marriage. A little ironic, really pathetic.>>>
You know Deshard, that’s probably the reason why my brother prefers the term Domestic Partnership…as it isn’t attached to that nasty straight marriage thing.
He dosn’t want his domestic partnership being called a marriage any more than he wants to change the term of his gay lifestyle to being called straight.
JohnB: yet again, another falsehood.
Actually, nothing has been determined about what happens to Domestic Partnerships. Some advocates of the elderly would like DPs to remain so that seniors can have that as an option as opposed to marriage.
Other advocacy groups say DPs should remain so sisters or brothers who live together, especially elderly siblings will continue to have an inexpensive means to make sure their estates have that much more protection.
No, no need to thank me JohnB: it’s my pleasure to enlighten you to the actual facts.
To me this isn’t about a threat to marriage, it’s screwed up anyway, I do see it as a threat to the church. I also do not like seeing groups forcing their views on others. We’ve voted twice on this, let it be. The people have spoken.
“By mentioning lifestyles clearly defines your ignorance of homosexuality. If you don’t understand that, you don’t understand our plight.”
You don’t have a plight my friend. Not here - not in this state. And you make some enormous assumptions in this statement, too, chiefly the assumption that I know nothing about being a gay man. And I would challenge you on that, because you in fact don’t know anything about me at all. I just might be someone who spent a considerable amount of time on the inside of the life you are living. And as such, I just may also be someone very familiar with every argument you might feel ready to cast my way, and with every derision you face and feeling you may have. You assume that my disagreement with you reveals my ignorance but maybe, just maybe, my disagreement comes from a place of knowledge.
All of that is irrelevant to one basic point that you cannot escape from and that point is this: it is not your right to have people validate your feelings or agree with you that your life is “equivalent”. No matter how much you want that approval, you don’t have a right to it.
if you thought about this for any length of time you might realize why we cannot, as a society, allow this kind of thinking to gain supremacy. We can’t allow it because it applies to anything.
You have a right to maintain a relationship with the person you choose, to be safe, to have a good job, to go to the same schools and eat at the same restaurants and enjoy the same standard of life and face the same relationship challenges, privileges, and responsibilities. You just don’t have the right to demand that anyone view your manner of doing so as “equivalent” and the reality is that this is the plight you speak of - the plight of not being SEEN as “equivalent”.
Jill
You keep saying ‘trying to be more straight’. It’s extremely misleading and false.
ttupper
More lies, one-sided opinions, ignorance, and filth. Go listen to your henny penny some more and do some real research on homosexuality, then come back.
Your right Deshard, I mispelled condscending. I’m ignorant. Or it’s late. I’m stupid like everyone else your talking to. I’m out of here but I got to say, You didn’t answer my question and as dumb as I am. I know your spewing an awful lot of hate and angry words that your friends are very against. So good luck with your argumentitive behavior because deep down I know your one smart cookie.
Peace,
56% reporting now, still 53% in favor of Prop 8.
64% in Orange County, nice job people!!!
BZ: you’re almost not worth responding too. Gavin is great becuase he supports Equaility for ALL Californians. John McCain cheated on his wife too. In fact, while he was still married to her and while she was recovering from a terrible accident that left her maimed.
Cheating is wrong. But unfortunately, it happens to the best among us, both Republican and Democrat, but hey, marriage is apparently pretty accepting. Of adulterers and divorcees.
BZ you can guffaw all you want, but the fact is, Prop 8, if it passes is going back to the polls faster than you can down a case of RockStar and Diet Coke. It will be overturned yet again.
Same sex marriage is here to stay in the words of Gavin “The Adulterer like John McCain” Newsome, whether you like it or not.
Es increible la magia que puede surgir ante el amor de dos personas, el matrimonio es un gran compromiso que fortalece una relacion sin importar genero pero aun siendo negado ese derecho, demostraremos la solidez como pareja ante una sociedad ignorante.
ttupper
So you are an ex-gay? That there clearly defines you as brainwashed. More henny penny, please.
Deshard, I’m not thanking you for anything. I know what will happen in time. In time someone will try and sue a church, in time they will try and remove domestic partnerships. The church and domestic partnerships stand in your way of being equal, you can’t have ANY differences….that’s call not being tolerent. I fine with gays having the domestic partnerships, why can’t some gays accept not having a marriage certificate?
BZ: enjoy tonights ride, becuase it will be over before you wake up tomorrow when the legal briefs are filed taking Prop 8 back to the courts.
You need to read more.
Why is it that every time gay marriage comes up, someone has to say next is marrying animals.. Please.. Just cause someone is gay doesn’t mean marring an animal would ever be right. You know in those hillbilly towns they always joke about sex with animals. And i’m sure its true to have happened. But it doesn’t mean being gay and getting to marry the one you love should be banned. We have the right just like anyone else. I pay taxes, i have a home, i’ve worked hard all my life. So give us a break. Stop judging me and look at yourself. Are you happy with your life. Are you married, have you been divorced, do you want a family, do you want the one you love to be able to see you if you go to the hospital, get benefits if you die. Everyone goes through the same stuff in life. And being gay and wanting to marry the one you love is just the same as any straight person. I’m from texas so i live in one of the most republican states and i still believe that one day we all will have the same rights and benefits as any straight person. So please as a nation that is supposed to be free, let us be free.
“More lies, one-sided opinions, ignorance, and filth. Go listen to your henny penny some more and do some real research on homosexuality”
When you get your ideas challenged by someone who is actually engaging you with real arguments, do you always retreat to name calling?
What did I say, by the way, that could be considered filth? And what did I say that was a lie? Please point them out.
Finally, listen carefully to what I said. Don’t assume I know nothing about being a gay man. You assume I am ignorant and you challenge me to conduct more research. But your only justification for this position is that I disagree with you.
I have lots of experience in this arena my friend, and I have many years of research under my belt.
JohnB: it’s pretty simple. California’s Constitution has an Equal Protections Clause that recognizes gays and lesbians as a protected minority. That mean you can’t give a right, like CIVIL (not religious) marriage to some and not to others.
Polygamists, pedophiles, incestuous relationships and men who do strange things with animals are NOT protected classes under the Constitution.
It’s really quite simple.
I am worthy of and eligible for, under my Constitutionally provided rights, the right to marry the ONE person I’ve loved for 15 years and who happens to be of the same gender.
Its incredible that there is people here that actually compared same-sex marriage to a human marriage with animals, figures to be the same geniuses that see Obama as the second coming of Marx. There is a lot more problems we are facing that need to be focused on instead we have people clinging to their sacred marriages… if you feel that same-sex marriage is gonna de-legitimize your own marriage, you have some self esteem issues
“So you are an ex-gay? That there clearly defines you as brainwashed. More henny penny, please.”
Again let me point it out: when confronted by someone willing to make a real argument, you retreat to casting aspersions and being derisive.
Isn’t that what you accuse your opponents of doing?
Here is a basic truth: apply some pressure to something, and what lies within will come forth. I applied a bit of pressure to you, and out came derision, dismissiveness, and accusation… exactly what you’ve spent a lot of the evening complaining about being a victim of.
UnhappyHusband Says:
November 5th, 2008 at 12:22 am
Jill
You keep saying ‘trying to be more straight’. It’s extremely misleading and false.>>>
That’s my gay brother’s expression…so it’s not false or misleading at all…just a gay man’s opinion. He likes not being straight, thus doesn’t wish to follow the straight man’s traditions. I respect him for being so comfortable with himself. He respects the fact that I’m a Christian and wish to keep my Christian traditions. He happens to be a Wiccan. Our family is very diverse, but we all get along. Good night everyone, we’ll see how the California Democratic majority voted on this tomorrow…
tthuber
I have 57 years of being a homosexual. I think I can clearly define what our life is like a little better than yourself. You are being fed filth and lies.
Goodnight, Jill, but if the outcome is 8 passes, don’t get too used to it. It will be back in the courts before lunch.
Goodnight all.
thuper
Spin isn’t a good tactic for you. Try again, please.
Man, your old, unless you were gay when you were 1
Good night Deshard!
Sleep well.
Cassidy
Some people are what you can call ‘born gay’. We grow up with it from birth (sometimes it’s ‘obvious’), while most define themselves as gay during their early teen years or later, sometimes much later.
“I have 57 years of being a homosexual. I think I can clearly define what our life is like a little better than yourself.”
And there again you spell out your position much more clearly than I ever could have. As far as you are concerned, the teaching that your lifestyle is anything other than normal, good, and healthy is “filth and lies”. YOUR words my friend, not mine.
You are acknowledging, in everything you say and every response you make to me, the very agenda you insist is not real. This isn’t about marriage, it’s about being regarded as equal.
You don’t have that right my friend - nobody has THAT right.
Certainly not you, so I’d advise you not to act like a tribunal and climb down from your ivory tower.
Interesting conversation, folks. I think I’m tired, now.
Good night.
PS: if what I believe isn’t true, than how do you know what YOU believe is true?
Just something to think about…
Cassidy
I believe it is what you’re views are with God..
I’m not here to tell one what is better to believe
just to have an awareness that there are other beliefs and people in this country..
where we are run under a democracy, not theocracy..
when Religion is involved,
it must be re-evaluated for what it really means.
not JUST to re-evaluate it.
I’m sorry if I’m not making any sense to you.
I think California, especially, has a lot of potential for progressing.
but in these tracks..
we are doing nothing more than regressing.
I’m glad you wanted me to try and clear things up though..
atleast you care to understand what I had to say.
anyways,
prop 8 too late
goodnight.
Yan. You are a moron. You think the next step after tolerance of homosexuality is allowing bestiality? That’s something completely different. You know that’s what they use to say about blacks marrying whites. This shouldn’t be an issue. Not one person has made a decent argument for ‘yes on 8′. Anything to do with God or the Bible can not be used. One of America’s oldest rules, “Separation of Church and State.” As for Yan’s remarks of “What’s next, allowing animals to marry people?” It takes a real idiot to believe that that’s at all possible. Can anyone give a decent argument on why gays can’t get married?
One thing that I think is silly in this whole argument, is people keep saying “if we allow gays to get married, what next? people marrying animals?” etc etc etc
Can animals say “I do”? Are they given the right to vote? Can they buy houses? No? hmmmm thought so.
Why are all of you calling animal marriage RIDICULOUS??? My wife and I very much would like to create a marriage that includes our loving dog, Steve. He is a loving part of every aspect of our lives. He once saved a neighbor’s child from drowning. There is no reason to ban animal marriage or group marriage of any kind. We want steve taken care of and inherit our property if something were to happen to us. Who would dare deny any tax paying American any right! Please, people, stop disparaging our love for our dog!!!
I think its interesting how everyone uses the separation of church and state as an argument for gay marriage. Separation of church and state comes from the bible. The main reason it was established in our constitution was to keep government separate from the church. Have you not learned of the reformation? Separation of church and state is biblical, but that doesn’t make the church nor the state separate from God. Gay marriage has nothing to do with politics, but everything to do with ethics. So how can you force a ethical view on the state without it being a world view? This is just as much a religion getting involved with the state.
Your argument shouldn’t be over marriage, but taxes. Why do we pay an income tax anyways? The constitution doesn’t allow it. The 16th amendment was never voted on, and the supreme court ruled in 1916 that it isn’t a valid amendment. So, stop trying to find tax breaks, and start focusing on how to stop the federal income tax.
I think these “Gay bans” are horrible and a denigration to America as a country and to its people.
I’m a heterosexual man, but I found these votes ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. The notion that we should be able to deny two human beings the rights of any other two human beings because of biases and opinions on the semantics of a word — or unjust fears of what could come from the union of same-sex couples — is absolutely one of the worst cases of segregation we have ever seen as a country. It astounds me how this goes unnoticed by the people voting YES to this proposition, that they are essentially denying people the same rights that they would so long to protect if anybody tried to take them away from them.
The slippery slopes with animals and the like just go way beyond reason, but I am going to endulge in a slippery slope myself. What happens when people say NO to cross-racial marriages or unions? It’s the same idea, really. Somebody thinks “that shouldn’t be,” as many close-minded people do, and thus over the years we get a vote to ban it — because somebody doesn’t like the idea. That’s basically what I see this entire argument against gay marriage as being — people don’t like it, so they come up with these “effects of gay marriage” to justify their denial of rights to other human beings.
Even far beyond gay marriage, there’s a much more saddening result of last night’s voting. Arkansas banning gay couples from adopting children? BLASPHEMOUS. Absolutely, positively blasphemous.
This is a two-fer. Not only are they denying human beings the ability to share their love and affection with a child who desperately needs it, they are denying children a family — because somebody doesn’t like the idea. This is the most horrible thing I have ever seen in my life, and I weep for this nation that things like can pass. Absolutely horrible. These selfish people who, because of their own personal biases, would rather have these children spend holidays and every day of their adolescent lives in state facilities than in a warm, loving home. RIDICULOUS.
As some of the above posters said, this is absolutely akin to drinking from a water fountain — a much, much bigger water fountain. The difference is when people try to fight for this one, the “white man” doesn’t give in. I suspect that if African-Americans were denied the right to adopt children, it would have been way, way above colored water fountains or where they were allowed to sit on a bus.
The path of our country as of November 4th, 2008, is a horrible one. As a country, we just voted for change — we voted for unity of this Nation — and we’re more segregated, and in much more horrible ways, than we have ever been.
To be clear, we prohibit profanity on our comments. I’ve had to delete several that included outright profanity or the suggestion of such by inserting an aster*sk into a word. We will not allow any such comments. I know Proposition 8 has ignited passions on both sides, but please, keep the conservation civil.
The Gay’s have the same rights, Ins,Health and such for the buddy that they live with so why the push to make us all think this is about rights?
The only thing they want is to make it right in everyones eyes and it’s just not and then to have this taught to our kids in 1st grade without us being able to say no because now it’s legal is sick and the people that say getting married to a dog or a cat will never happen well that is what people said about Gay’s getting married 30 years ago.
Have we gotten smarter I don’t think so just more perverted.
To: The Truth Says,
Being Gay is a choice…You are not born like that….
Most gay people I know have said they made the choice to be who they are….Where do you get your facts at?
Gay rights? Why can’t you just be happy by putting in a common law marriage clause? You are not fighting to marry because it is something sacred… sacred is something that is pure… not man/man or woman/woman. You are fighting for rights so that you can force us to accept that you. And more than that: What about the fact that you ARE FORCING the children that you “artificially have or adopt” that this lifestyle is more than normal and that, “oh, poor me no one loves me”. A child cannot be created without a man… and a woman… ! You can’t make one on your own so why do you want to raise one and lie to them about how they came to be. It’s ok though, now that Obama is in and there is not more bipartisanship you should be fine. It isn’t you that is oppressed it is us that now have no say.
“Don’t blame me, my vote didn’t count”
God create Adam & Eve not, Adam and Adam, therefore marriage should between a man and a women.!!!!!!
Under that argument, if god created all that is on this earth, then god created homosexuals too…. sorry, you’re wrong again
It’s always interesting, and disheartening, to see that the pro-equality people on boards like this are generally infinitely more intelligent, articulate, and grammatical than the anti-gay folks. It’s a fact: People who are smart and educated are FAR more likely to support the rights of all citizens.
Meesh,
Under that argument, God loves homosexuals too. But it is clearly not the lifestyle God intended it to be… It is also not impossible for homosexuals to return to heterosexuality. I have known many who have and have claimed to be happier as a result of it. Even biologically speaking, it’s clearly not made to fit. Moreover, no offspring may be produced that comes naturally. I say this not out of condemnation for the gay community., but of love and respect.
The best arguements for Prop 8 that I have read on this thread are the ones ttupper has written.
If you would like a calm, reasonable explainations for 8, go back and read his explanations and rebuttels.
Awsome job ttupper! ImoYou got it right.
Interesting…. very interesting…. Prop 8 passes Prop 4 fails…. what a screwed up world we live in….
Guess the folks in Cali like killing babies in minors and restricting love…. what is wrong with you people..
Our laws SHOULD NEVER restrict rights from one group and give them to another…..EQUAL PEOPLE… EQUAL RIGHTS. And until everyone has equal rights.. heck there should be none at all…
I say, lets get a law that restricts the number of marriages to ONE and ONLY for people that can actually produce children without medical help…no adoption, no borrowing, etc…
see … stop borrowing pieces of the bible… take it all or take nothing….
YES ON 8! God created Adam and Eve. He didn’t create Adam and Steve…
thank you to all who voted YES on 8!!! Righteous people rule!
Okay so seriously, some of you compare human beings to animals. Now i am an animal lover but there is no comparison. How could someone deprive others of a right they should not even be fighting for in the first place? What if straight people had to get permission to get married? you wouldnt like it. Another thing that I dont understand is that how can you ban gay marriage when at least one of your family members have to be gay? are you proud to take their right away? Just think about it, dont treat others the way you wouldnt want to be treated.
The whole “Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve” comment is the most infantile ridiculous argument. How dare people make decisions about how others conduct their lives. What if it was decided that it should be law that some people should suck it up and be slaves again based on STORIES that were written over 2,000 years ago in a book that does NOT RULE everyone’s lives, just yours.That’s what Adam and Eve is - a STORY! How do you justify removing your fellow citizen’s rights based on a story that was read to you when you were a child? That’s what you are doing, denying rights of your GLBT sisters and brothers that you have never ever even met. You don’t spend any time with gay or lesbian people, because they are too smart to spend time with an intolerant closed minded bigot who thinks it’s OK to judge others by who they fall in love with.
We are not restricting anybody of any rights.. we are giving a definition of what marriage really means…
The beleivers rights are in question here. We were given the definition by the Word of God of what constitues marriage . Now poeple that don’t respect or follow what it means. want to adopt our belive without any responsibility..
Cris, that’s so dumb. No one’s legislating your beliefs. If you don’t believe that same-sex marriage is right, you don’t have to marry someone of the same sex. But spare me the “we’re not restricting rights, we’re just defining the word!” nonsense. You’d probably be pretty peeved if we voted to define marriage as an institution exclusively for people whose usernames don’t start with the letter “C.”
C’MON PEOPLE!! HAVEN’T GAYS SUFFERED ENOUGH? BUT IF THEY WANNA SUFFER MORE, LET THEM MARRY.
now let me get back to changing my baby’s diaper. again!
This is all about the definition of marriage. The proposition was so marriage can be defined as a union between one man and one woman. No matter what adjective you place in front of marriage (same-sex, gay, etc) the adjective cannot re-define marriage. How can you describe a union between a man and a woman as gay (between people of the same gender)? Gay marriage is an oxymoron.
The No on 8 people say this is discrimination, but it is simply re-defining marriage as it was defined previously. Go to dictionary.com or wikipedia and look up marriage. The primary definition lists marriage as a union between a male and a female.
No on 8 supporters have become fixated on the word marriage, when there are other ways to describe their relationship with each other in equal terms. Domestic partnership or civil union isn’t good enough for them. I am pretty sure that some of the people arguing for Yes on 8 would be completely supportive of an initiative to confer the same legal rights of marriage to people who have civil unions and or domestic partnerships or their term of choice. They just want to keep the definition of marriage as between one man and one woman, which in no way restricts the rights of gays or homosexuals to be with one another or achieve happiness with one another. Jill’s brother understands this. He has his civil union or domestic partnership and the legal protections those provide. He has no need for his union to be recognized as a same-sex “marriage”. I can’t say the same for UnhappyHusband, who is fixated on the word marriage and won’t accept other ways to get the same legal rights of marriage without using the word marriage.
I am all for gays and homosexuals to have the right to life, love, and pursuit of happiness. But I am also for marriage to be defined as only between a man and a woman. I don’t agree that gay and homosexual people have a right to marry, because as I’ve stated previously, I believe marriage is defined as the union of a man and a woman, and clearly, a gay or homosexual couple would not fall under that definition, but I agree they have a right to be with the person of their choosing so long as they do not define their relationship as marriage. Now, why can’t gays and homosexuals be content with civil unions and or domestic partnerships that give them the same legal rights as marriage? If civil unions and domestic partnerships don’t currently give all the same priviliges of marriage, then create an initiative that we can vote on so the priviliges can be equal. And leave the name calling and bigotry out of it.
Orange County is beyond my belief. A sincere thank you to those who supported NO on 8.
No on Prop 8 Petition:
http://www.petitiononline.com/seg5130/petition.html
Sign the petition. I know this has already been taken back to the courts as of early this morning, but signing the petition couldn’t hurt.
For everyone who is saying that gay marriage will force unnatural ways of having children and adoption leading to raising kids gay, I’m very upset about this. I am adopted. I was given up for adoption because my parents didn’t want a female child.. yes, my birth parents are white and from America. Some of your arguments are very hurtful to yet another community - the adopted community. Let’s not bring in another hateful debate. Yes, adoption is a key issue in the Prop 8 debate, but please be respectful who have grown up knowing that they were not wanted.
Gay members of the community who adopt are the most educated and willing parents that will almost ever be. Knowing that you have to go through an intense process to adopt a child that you wouldn’t have otherwise is such an amazing feeling. To know that you are helping a child grow up in a happy and healthy household without discrimination, possibly saving a life through the birth parent utilizing another means than abortion, aiding in the decrease in murdered infants found in trash cans and alleys… Isn’t that what adoption is all about? Sterile men and women can’t reproduce.. and yet they can adopt? They can obtain a surrogate to fulfill the pregnancy? They can use donated sperm and eggs? Adoption isn’t an issue. Let’s keep to the human rights topic, it’s more relevant.
Also, in response to the whole human-animals-polygamists thing. First and foremost, the animal issue is irrelevant. See a few of the above posts, they were worded very well. The polygamist issue is not only ridiculous because of what was cited above, but also because of the simple fact that the population of polygamists in America, and even any given state is so small that even if 100% of the members voted, it wouldn’t pass. So, once again, another moot point on the Yessers side.
Good night all… Please sign the petition! I’ll be re-posting it every chance I get in order to spread the word. Send it to all of your friends!
MARTIN LUTHER KING WAS THE GREATEST CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST EVER. MARTIN LUTHER KING WAS ALSO A SOUTHERN BAPTIST PREACHER. HE BELIEVED IN PRAYING TO JESUS CHRIST TO CHANGE THIS COUNTRY. WHEN I LOOK AT THE HOMOSEXUAL COMMUNITY ATTACKING THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN GOD I JUST WONDER WHAT MARTIN LUTHER KING WOULD SAY.
If you vote No on Prop 8 and asking about equality in the U.S. maybe you should all go to Massachusette.lol