The Field Poll’s latest polling on Proposition 4, which requires parental notification 48 hours before a minor can have an abortion, shows it narrowly passing. The poll, released Saturday, shows the measure leading with 45 percent Yes versus 43 percent No, with 12 percent still undecided.
This is the third time in four years that backer of parental notification have tried to pass a measure through the initiative process. The other two started off strong, but faded late and narrowly failed.
Wouldn’t be ironic if our overwhelmingly Democratic state elected Barack Obama president and increased the number of Democrats in the state Legislature (as some are predicting) only to pass Prop. 4 and Prop. 8, the gay marriage ban? Given that recent polling only shows Prop. 8 failing by a narrow margin, 49 percent No to 44 percent Yes, it’s a real possibility.
Stay tuned, folks.
RELATED COVERAGE
- McCain and Obama: O.C. connections roundup
- Poll: Republicans says media has unfair Obama bias
- Roll Obama Roll?
- Spend election day with OCRegister.com/election
- Schwarzenegger stumps for McCain in Ohio
- Is the media biased toward Barack Obama?
- Pulse poll: Only half of Republicans list economy as top issue
No, Mr. Joseph, it wouldn’t be ironic, it would be sad if our “overwhelmingly” Democratic state elected Barack HUSSEIN Obama. If he’s not even a “Natural Born” Citizen, he is not eligible to be President.
Suffice it to say, I voted FOR Propositions 4 and 8.
JakeD what would be sad…..if the majority of the citizens in California adopted your narrow and angry view of the world.
What makes you think I am angry?
I’m not the one who posted that he got so mad he wanted to “slam his car” into a group standing on the sidewalk holding signs for “Yes on 8″.
This is horribly sad. Many 13 year olds bodies are not capable of carrying a child to term. And if they are raped it’s even worse. The fact of the matter is, if your daughter is comfortable speaking with you about things like pregnancy and abortion she will come to you. I was 16 when I decided to be put on birth control. I know I didn’t need my mom’s permission to do so, but I just let her know. She took me to my first pap appointment. I was nervous, I wanted her to be there with me. I know many, many women and young girls even who don’t share this type of relationship with their mother (or parents for that matter). But they have other women in their lives they can confide in.
JakeD:
Every time you post these types of things, you are making us all dumber. Please stop, for the good of humanity.
How will JakeD entertain himself after Obama wins handily tomorrow?
California isn’t even in question - Obama will win all of our electors tomorrow.
I voted No on 4 and No on 8!
Don’t count your chickens before they natch (Inauguration Day is January 20, 2009).
Megan:
Why is it that the school nurse can’t give a 13 year old asprin without parental notification?
Damon:
Does quoting from the U.S. Constitution “No Person except a natural born Citizen … shall be eligible to the Office of President …” makes you dumber somehow?
Has anyone read who OPPOSES Prop. 4? Every sing group opposing are ob/gyns, pediatricians, school counselors, etc. Everyone in favor are mostly made up of judges, lawyers and cops. HA!
http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/California_Proposition_4_(2008)
I meant to put that quote in bold, and parenthetically.
JakeD, having a headache and having a baby in a uterus are 2 totally different things. No law should mandate family communication. This is why schools have nurses and guidance counselors. Many girls are not lucky enough to have compassionate and understanding parents who will be for them during very tough times.
Megan:
Of course they are 2 totally different things. Yet, you support the law requiring parental notification for asprin. I could care less which groups oppose or support. The California TEACHERS Association supports “No on 8″ but we are told that doesn’t mean anything.
Where did I say I support Asprin notification?
I asked you the question, you refused to answer by making a big deal that “having a headache is totally different than having a baby” (see your 2:07 pm post), so it is implied by your evasion that you support one but not the other. At the very least, you tacitly acknowledge the necessity for one but not the other. Is that not the case?
If you refuse to answer about 13 year olds (notice I didn’t limit it to females), how about parental notification of medication given to a 4 year old, is that acceptable in your learned legal opinion?
Damon:
Are you still around? What other parts of the U.S. Constitution do you think teaching about makes one “dumber”?
JakeD have you ever been brutally raped and felt you had no one to tell because you feared your family would not believe you, and therefore accuse you of being a slut?
Like you said I merely IMPLIED. I understand why school nurses have to tell parents about asprin. Kids can be allergic, parents might not want their children taking pain medication, etc. But as I stated before, which you will never understand because you appear to be so thick-headed and misogynistic - abortion and headaches do not equal the same thing. Kids can go to their parents and say “Mommy I have a headache, can I have some asprin?” without severe circumstances.
No, I have never been brutally raped, and I did say: “Of course they are 2 totally different things.” Next canard?
Megan is 100% right and I completly agree with her!! Jake you are a sad person for wanting to take away teenagers rights. oh and PS- If you did any research or knew anything about our next president, you will then know that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii-duh. Maybe you should review which states are part of the United States, that would be helpful.
Then we no longer need to argue about why parents need to be notified when their kids are taking asprin at school. Perfect.
BTW: “Kids can be allergic [to medicine administered during elective abortions too], parents might not want their children taking pain medication, etc.”
Megan:
Do you think the victim of a brutal rape “deserves” to be killed?
I’m done with this debate. Have fun in your bitter retirement JakeD. I hope you don’t have any granddaughters.
JakeD:
I didn’t want to resort to this, but here’s an excerpt from the article on Hawaii from the simple English version of Wikipedia (just to make sure you can comprehend):
“Hawaii is a U.S. state of the United States. It is the last state to join the United States. Hawaii became a state on August 21, 1959. It is the only state made only of islands.”
Megan:
Did I say I was “bitter”?
Damon:
I know when Hawaii was made an American State. When was KENYA made a American State? You still haven’t answered my questions, i.e.: “What other parts of the U.S. Constitution do you think teaching about makes one “dumber”?”
Jake I said you were bitter, because you are. Debating is normally very fun for me, but you are wicked and nasty and I don’t feel the need to debate with you anymore. You anger me, you disgust me, and you make me very sad.
LOL
Megan:
Don’t worry, be happy!
I’ll split the difference:
No on 4
Yes on 8
JakeD:
Kenya is the 51st U.S. State, duh! Visit Kenya: The Wildebeest State.
But feel free to file a lawsuit claiming that Obama is ineligible to be president. When you have to admit that you have no evidence, the judge will throw it out faster than you can say “I have too much free time on my hands.”
Also, the parts of the constitution that you make up are the ones that make us dumber (if it hasn’t happened already, I’m sure it will).
BF:
Why “No on 4″? Do you support parental notification for schools to give medicine to minors?
JakeD YOU ARE TOTALLY RIGHT WHEN YOU SAY :Do you think the victim of a brutal rape “deserves” to be killed?
THIS IS SO TRUE!!!! GOD BLESS YOU BRO…….
MEGAN: TAKING BIRTH CONTROL AT AGE 15 OR 16? THIS IS NORMAL TO YOU? HAVE YOU EVER READ YOUR BIBLE WHERE IT STATES TO WAIT UNTIL YOU ARE MARRIED? WOW YOU STARTED TO EARLY CHICK!!!!
VOTE YES ON 8
Damon:
I don’t have standing to sue Obama — McCain does however — I also have not “made up” any quote from the U.S. Constitution (at least I don’t think there are 57 States ; )
Sandy:
For the record, I do not think that rape victims should be executed. Also, SOME girls take “birth control” for perfectly acceptable medical reasons, i.e. to regulate out-of-control menstral cycles.
Sandy I took it for acne, so yes, it was normal. My sex life is none of your business whether or not I’m under 18 anyway.
JakeD:
Unfortunately for you, McCain doesn’t think Obama is ineligible to be president. Perhaps this is because McCain is used to the same thing being made up about him for being born in the Panama canal zone.
Also, I like how you repeatedly emphasize that Obama’s middle name is Hussein. Do you know how many people in the world have that name? Are you saying they are all evil? If so, I would be extra careful to make sure my personal contact information isn’t leaked somehow.
Hahaha
Damon:
Let’s see how close the results are before you decide what lawsuit (if any) McCain will file. I also like how I repeatedly emphasize that Obama’s middle name is Hussein — thanks for noticing — I really don’t know how many people in the world have that name, but there’s at least two. I am not saying that they are ALL evil though.
laura
Yes, I want to “take away” same-sex couples rights to marry as well. Perhaps you can let us know whether you support parental notification for asprin?
BF:
Are you stil around?
JakeD:
Seeing as how successfully removing Obama from office would simply make Joe Biden president, I’m guessing that won’t be too high on McCain’s list of priorities.
It’s good that you’re not saying everyone with the name Hussein is evil. Still, you might want to ease off with the using of that name. You wouldn’t want King Hussein of Jordan, the most moderate, western-leaning leader in the middle east, to think you were insulting him, would you?
(former king)
Still around yes and do not support prop 4.
I think it’s a sad, sad world when people like ignorant people like Sandy and JakeD are around, trying to spread their uneducated views over the internet. Don’t you think that’s the least bit sad? Jake, go take a chill pill and do your research. Sandy, quit judging people and go back to your bible.
BF:
Thanks for the update.
Damon:
Why would Biden become President? The Electoral College doesn’t even meet until December 15th.
…the girls are minors…parents should be notified…especially if the male is 18 or over which would mean a possible statutory rape charge….it’s a no brainer…as a parent of a girl…i’m voting yes on prop 4
Whaz up! Says:
as a parent of a girl…i’m voting yes on prop 4
I would hope that your daughter would not require a constitutional ammendment to force her to be able to talk to you about such things.
Thank you, Whaz up!
Any woman who would get rid of a child out of inconvenience, DOES NOT DESERVE ANY CHILDREN, if you don’t want kids keep your legs closed.
ktstar:
You think I am “uneducated”? Which law school did YOU graduate from? I think I’ve done plenty of research in my lifetime. What is “sad” is that most Californians think it’s OK to abort children and marry someone from the same sex. What’s next, marrying your dog or cat?
And any child that lives in my home to which I am supporing, as a parent its my right to know.
Teenagers have rights?
As long as they are minors (under 18), and live in the parents household the parent is responsible for that child whether they be male or female!
I understand the Doctor-Patient privacy issues, but ther are situations that trump that, because of health, legal, etc…
Kmoochiee:
AMEN!
To Jake:
No, I just think you’re just ignorant and scared. I mean, you had to capitalize HUSSEIN in Barack’s name. Seriously, if his name scares you that much that you had to elaborate, that is sad.
JakeD
Is a dog or cat a human? jeezus - that’s the lamest.
Why do you have such a problem with two men or two women marrying?
btw - who’s paying you?
I have a daughter, and just like my mother taught me to respect myself and my body I know that getting rid of a child simply because your not ready or its not the right time is still MURDER. and any girl - woman who gets an abortion because they were too stupid to keep their legs closed should have their tubes tied in the process. And I also vote yes on 8
ktstar:
I am not “scared” of his middle name. I capitalize Joe ROBINETTE Biden, John SIDNEY McCain and Sarah LOUISE Palin’s middle names too. Care to answer MY questions now:
1) You think I am “uneducated”?
2) Which law school did YOU graduate from?
3) What’s next, marrying your dog or cat?
JakeD:
With your supposed legal knowledge, one would think you’re not naive enough to think you could successfully complete a lawsuit before Obama is sworn in.
Even if that somehow happened, and Obama was found to be ineligible, that doesn’t mean McCain gets to be president. The electors from each state are chosen so to ensure that they cast their vote for whoever wins the popular vote in that state. Democratic electors would simply cast their vote for another Democrat.
Unless you meant that post as an “answer” to all three questions.
Damon:
“The electors from each state are chosen so to ensure that they cast their vote for whoever wins the popular vote in that state.”
LOL! Now, I am sure you are going to back that up with a “quote” from the U.S. Constitution?
1) Yes.
2) One doesn’t need a law degree to prove their intellect. I have a biology degree. I hope that will suffice.
3) No, but I would like to marry my bed. It keeps me warm at night.
P.S. I wouldn’t want to marry my cat anyway. He has attachment issues.
JakeD, we’ve fought the same battles on Prop. 8, which I support, and I support Prop. 4, but I have to say, I couldn’t care less that Obama’s middle name is Hussein. Why should that possibly matter?
When you start making extremist arguments in one area, it diminishes the credibility of your arguments in other areas. Something to think about.
Blue is correct. Why did you feel the need to elaborate his middle to begin with? And, you only wrote in Joe, Sarah, and John’s middle names in capitalized letters after I had noticed what you had written.
He does that, ktstar.
JakeD:
Have you ever taken a government class? This is what I’m talking about when I say you’re making us stupid.
The 12th amendment specifically states that the electors get to vote for whomever, and the person with the most votes wins. It doesn’t say anything about how electors are chosen because that is left to the states and political parties.
On the other hand, taking 5 seconds to do a reality check will remind you that all but two states give the entirety of their electoral votes to the winner of the popular vote in that state, and that’s because electors are sent who support that candidate.
I don’t doubt that “marriage” to inanimate (sp?) objects is coming too.
JakeD
Why do you have such a problem with two men or two women marrying?
How does it affect you?
and btw - who’s paying you?
If you *need* the force of law in order for your teen daughter to talk to you about her unintended pregnancy, then you have already FAILED as a parent. No law and no government will save your family relationships for you.
totally agree emeryannharris
Blue:
Thanks for the advice.
ktstar:
I am a triva buff — middle names” was actually a category on Jeopardy at least once — look back in the archives for my use of Gov. Palin’s middle name (I have even used Hillary DIANE Clinton’s middle name back in the primaries). We have been posting here BEFORE you showed up, hard as it is to believe ; )
Damon:
I have taken a government class, as well as varied Con Law classes. If McCain can successfully challenge the slate of electors in a few kep States, that’s all it will take.
kep = key (darn Spellchecker ; )
….this has nothing to do with a daughter talking to a parent ….it’s has do with a MINOR…getting a medical procedure…
Obviously, you were posting here before I showed up, as my posts in here are time dated after yours. I don’t doubt you haven’t posted here before, Jake. Let me reiterate my point, and Blue’s as well. You capitalized HUSSEIN. Show me a prior post where you have capitalized Hillary, Joe, Sarah, John’s middle name.
ktstar:
http://totalbuzz.freedomblogging.com/2008/10/29/will-you-be-watching-obama-tonight/6693/#comment-14087
Five days ago.
ktstar……
damon…..
You both need a reality check!!!!!
Whaz up! can you please type a normal sentence without a million ellipses, for the love of God?
ktstar, he actually didn’t start capitalizing everyone else’s middle names until people continued to call him racist for doing so for Obama’s middle name.
Whaz up!
Keep it going (I understood you just fine ; )
Also Whaz up! it has EVERYTHING to do with a daughter talking to a parent.
OMG are you people listening to yourselfs! Ok my kid and I have a great relationship so if other kids get rape or end up on the lossing end of sexual relations it is ok to let them go out and get an abortion because someone might call them a slut. Please, if it walks like a duck it must be a duck. If these people that want to allow children to have medical procedures without parent consent would focus on EUDCATING PARENTS BEFORE THEIR CHILDREN BECOME PARENTS!!! I have always had an open door to my children and their friends as well. I won’t hesitate to tell them how it is and what it will be by the choices they make. So, sorry Vote no to let children make risky health choices it is bad enough they are risking their lives having unprotected sex. If they did not want a child they should not have had the unproteced sex.
No, Megan, that’s not true. My very first post here “capitalizing” Obama’s middle name also capitalized McCain’s too. Next canard?
Thanks Jake. I noticed many people in there questioning your use of Barack’s middle name in there as well. Probably not the best evidence if you want to prove to me that you don’t care about his middle name, HUSSEIN. Some examples:
“Jake is racist and he is tap dancing around it. I have seen you capitalize his middle name like there is a problem with it….” from Sandman909
“I’ve never really understood why people emphasize his middle name so much. Are they trying to compare him to Saddam? Why does it even matter?” from Megan
“JakeD, why are you so hung up on his name?” from Kevin
***
Oh, thanks Megan for the info. I figured just as much.
JakeD:
Haha, challenge the slate of electors? What are you talking about? You think McCain can somehow file a lawsuit that will override the process of choosing electors so that spontaneously, a bunch of Democratic electors in will be replaced by Republican ones?
Not only is this not going to happen, I find it hilarious that your ray of hope in this election is to basically try and destroy the fundamental rules.
Whaz up!
They also deny that Prop. 8 has nothing to do with schools teaching “respect” for same-sex marriage. Don’t worry about the liars.
Damon:
Try reading Bush v. Gore someday.
ktstar:
You’re welcome.
JakeD, you only proceeded to capitalize John’s middle name after I questioned you, therefore, you cannot say that you did that willingly so out of thought.
ktstar:
I just gave you an example of my posts capitalizing McCain’s middle name FIVE DAYS AGO, long before you “questioned” me. LOL.
Megan
Exactly right. We’re facing a bizzaro scenario where if someone can’t get their daughter to tell them she’s pregnant and wants an abortion, they’ll legislate so that someone else will tell them. Parental right does not trump parental responsibility, and part of that responsibility is to raise children who trust you and feel they can talk to you. Start there at the root-cause of the teenage pregnancy problem, instead of flailing madly at the symptoms.
Prop 4 is legislation that is unnecessary at best and intrusive at worst; family relationships should not be legislated, and has no place in public policy. Why in the world would a freedom-loving people want to invite increasing government interference in our lives? Let government spend time working on the budget, public works, public safety, public education, public health, defense, and economic development; let ME spend time working on my family, my kids, and our decisions.
Unless that was some, different “ktstar” at 4:13 pm who demanded: “Show me a prior post where you have capitalized Hillary, Joe, Sarah, John’s middle name.”?
JakeD:
Since Bush v. Gore dealt with whether or not the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th amendment was violated by the Florida Supreme Court, perhaps you’d like to tell me what that has to do with McCain being able to sue to invalidate the electors of a given state if one candidate was found to be ineligible. Call me crazy, but those sound like two completely unrelated issues.
Wow you all took a tangent on this one. Back to the issue:
Prop 4 requires parental notification before a minor has an abortion. I can’t imagine any parent that loves their children that would not be involved in their lives. An abortion is the termination of the life of a fetus. To me that is murder. Unfortunately this type of murder is legal in California.
Now for the reality check. An abortion is a medical procedure. Drugs may be administered, complications may arise. Any number of things might happen. Why do people think that it is necessary for parents to be notified if a kid breaks their toe and has to get it set but not for an abortion. These are MINORS we are talking about. For me I do not want ANY doctor treating my child without my knowledge unless it is an emergency. The need for an abortion is NEVER an emergency and a pregnacy is rarely life-threatening.
Vote Yes on 4
Crazy:
The United States Supreme Court effectively stopped the re-counting, and Florida’s certification of the SLATE OF ELECTORS stood. Gore was trying to get that certification overturned. McCain would be attempting the same thing, except he would be trying to disqualify Obama’s slate.
Get your head out of the sand…. IF prop 4 passes, it would force girls to revert to measures that could be potentially harmful in terminating an unwanted pregnancy. AND if you think for one minute that telling them to “abstain” is going to work you are sadly mistaken. If I had to talk to my mom when I was pregnant at 16, I wouldn’t have had a choice.
All of the money that has been spent on this Proposition could have been better spent on helping kids that have runaway from home and are living on the street due to one reason or another.
In other words, (assuming the courts even took up the challenge — it could be a “political question” that they simply refuse to rule on — then it goes to the House of Representative), the Supreme Court could just as easily invalidate Obama’s victory and hand the election to McCain (and his slate of electors ; )
JakeD:
Florida’s certification of the SLATE OF ELECTORS is based on who they deemed the winner of the popular vote in that state.. BUSH. It had nothing to do with the ineligibility if a candidate, which means your comparison is idiotic.
Parents should be notified. Period. Rape or not. Parents sign for any other kind of surgeries, medications, etc.
What if there are complications? Who do you think pays for it?
And who do you think cares for the CHILD, yes CHILD after she secretly gets an abortion. If she starts having emotional side effects - how does a parent knowingly deal with it.
It’s ludicrous that parents would not be notified. Absolutely ludicrous. Parents need to know.
emeryannharris Says:
November 3rd, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Very well said.
I’d rate it if I could.
Octimes:
Haven’t you heard? It doesn’t matter when abortion is king! All muct bow down before Molech.
muct = must
Damon:
Fine, if McCain doesn’t file a legal challenge, then you won’t have to worry about it either way.
JakeDumb:
I’m looking at the 12th amendment, and I’m not seeing the part where it says “If the vote for president goes to the House due to lack of a majority in the Electoral College, the Supreme Court can then intervene at any time and vote for president themselves.”
Good thing this is all pointless since you, nor anybody else in the world, has a shred of evidence that Obama was born in Kenya.
ktstar:
You still around?
So, Damon, you are saying that the United States Supreme Court would be POWERLESS if Gov. Schwarzenegger had, instead, been the GOP nominee and obtained 270 electoral votes?! LOL
Again, I am forced to ask: Which law school did YOU graduate from?
OK get back to work, to much fighting. That report is due on my desk by 5pm!
BTW: you asked me to call you “crazy”. I did not ask you to call me “dumb”, so I believe that personal attacks are prohibited on this forum.
JakeD:
Yeah, technically they would be powerless, unless a case is brought before them. Presumably if the court ruled that one or more candidates was ineligible to be president then their placement on the ballot violated the constitution, and the election itself was invalid.
By the way, I got my J.D. from the school of BS Detecting.
Please, Lord, please make JakeD go away. For good.
fathergeoff:
An ectopic pregnancy is an emergency and, if left untreated, 100% life-threatening.
HB-Mom:
We can spend money on this AND help unwed mothers too.
The major funder who doesn’t want parents notified of their teenage daughter wanting to have an abortion is Planned Parenthood. Do you know how many millions of abortions they perform? This is pretty much an all cash business since most of these are not medically necessary. If they were medically necessary they would be performed at hospitals surgery centers. Planned Parenthood has a huge lobby because they don’t want to lose all of the millions of cash they receive. They could care less if your daughter dies while under anesthesia, has complications, infection or becomes infertile in later years because of a decision she made when she was 13 without your consent.
As far as Prop 8 goes, if you were a vegan would you want to be forced to wear fur and eat meat? Then why are you trying to force Christians to condone Gay marriage? This will lead to churches being sued and forced to perform gay marriages. It will lead to lowering of the age of consent laws, and to indoctrinating our school children into believing that this is a viable option for their future choice of loved one. It is already happening did you see how many high schoolers were protesting for No on 8?
Damon:
We are talking HYPOTHETICALLY, that Obama files a lawsuit challenging Ah-Nold. If the show was on this other foot, a bunch of Democrats (maybe not you) would be up in arms!
BTW: I don’t think that school is ABA-accredited ; )
Lisa:
No can do.
zacksmom:
What is sad that Prop. 4 only relates to NOTIFICATION. Withholding consent is not even possible any more. God will judge us someday.
So if your 13 year old daughter gets pregnant and you don’t allow her to have an abortion, she dies because of complications due to the fact that her 13 year old body cannot BIRTH A CHILD, you’ll feel better about yourself for knowing you were notified?
Planned Parenthood is there for a reason…it is a SAFE place where abortions are preformed by doctors. A place where a girl can go to have a SAFE abortion not some back alley where they will be forced to go if prop 4 passes.
Nobody is forcing “Christians” to do anything. IF I remember correctly it was was the Christians who forced their religion on the pagans, the Indians and everyone else they came across.
I donate to Planned Parenthood regularly. They are amazing for women who do not have insurance and need cheaper ways to have things done such as pap-smears, or even pregnancy visits.
JakeD-
How might one go about obtaining a birth certificate in Hawaii for a child born in Kenya?
What other evidence is required to convince you that Obama is American-born? (I have a feeling that nothing would satisfy you.)
Finally, when is the last time a dog or cat had legal standing to enter into a civil contract (such as marriage)?
Take all of your pills tonight, please. We’ll all be happier in the morning.
People don’t choose to be gay just like its not a choice what race you are.
Also, if a girl goes into a Planned Parenthood clinic and says she has been raped, or even says her parents will beat her if they find out she is pregnant, they are required by law to report any form of abuse, whether is rape or child abuse.
JakeD:
Let’s say candidate A was ineligible to be president and candidate B was. If candidate A is ruled to be invalid before the election, they’re going to be replaced on the ticket by somebody from their own party. If they’re ruled to be invalid after the election, they’re going to be replaced by the VP.
Somehow I don’t think that if the ruling conveniently ended up being handed down in the lame duck period, they’d rule so that candidate B gets office instead.
I am pro-life and think that the arguments we hear against parental consent or parental notification are really bogus. They always seem to exagerate and pull out the minority of potential exceptions to make their points, ignoring provisions to get around those potential situations. And most of the hysterical arguments against provisions like this seem to assume that abortion clinics or maybe an older boyfriend who got her pregnant and wants to get rid of his “mistake” so as to not have to pay child support, or others who may be involved care more about the her welfare than her parents.
All the arguments against these types of proposals seem to assume the worst about parents, bringing up the minority of cases of abusive parents and ignoring the very real conflicts of interests in the other parties. The abortion clinics make money providing abortions. They guy or his family may not want to take responsibility. They all may be pressuring her to get an abortion, but no one seems to even consider that aspect. That her preferred choice might be to not get an abortion but other parties may be pressuring her to go ahead and get one. Where is the choice in that?
I hope some of you that are arguing so vigorously against any requirements for parental notification or consent would think about these things.
That said, I think that this proposition is poorly written unfortunately. The 48 hr notification provisions are really weak and don’t even require that notification be received. They just assume that it is delivered 48 hrs after it is sent (excluding non postal delivery dates).
In addition the exceptions where a pregnant minor could avoid notifying her parents by alleging emotional abuse could open up a can of worms, inciting false accusations of abuse to get around it. They would have to be reported to the authorities whether or not the accusation had any validity or not. http://www.robynnordell.com/prop_4.aspx is a link to information about these perspectives on this.
So I am sad that so much effort was made to get this on the ballot for what is a needed and very reasonable thing that parents at least be notified, or better even, that they be required to give consent for an abortion like for any other medically related procedure. However I am voting no on prop 4 because it is so poorly written that it could be easily gotten around and also open up an additional can of worms. Please read it carefully.
to yeson8:
You think I need a reality check? If so, please inform me of what I need “check” on. I’m so hurt, thats the most offensive thing you could think of to say?
I’m surprised jaked is still here. Talk about needing a life- he’s been on here since 12:30- is anyone still listening to him?
Oh and Jake, you showed me the post where you so-called capitalized John’s middle name, but you only proceeded to capitalize his name after you were questioned. Do you comprehend that, or do I need to write that again?
Well peace out, JakeD. I hope you sleep well tonight! Don’t forget to take your happy pills. You’re really angry today.
Parental consent requirements would NOT force a pregnant minor to go get a back alley abortion.
Why do so many seem to think that an abortion is the only answer to an unplanned, crisis pregnancy? Sure its tough, but there are other options. I have known several young women who have gone through one, being supported by family and friends. And some have gone through it supported by new-found friends.
There are pro-life crisis pregnancy centers that assist those with unplanned pregnancies, giving them the choice of carrying the baby to term with support both before and after the birth. Some provide a place to live in the cases where the family is abusive. And then assistance in either raising the baby or placing the baby for adoption.
Because sadly that’s one of the only options young girls think they have, OC4truth. Especially if they do not want anyone to know they are pregnant.
When you are an adult you can see that there options other than abortion. However, when you are 16 and scared, abortion is the only option that usually comes to mind. Its not always about whether you have the support of family and friends, its about not wanting anyone to know. Period. In a perfect world ALL kids would have an open relationship with their parents, be able to discuss anything, no matter what. We don’t live in a perfect world.
Most girls who get pregnant and continue the pregnancy while they are in high school don’t finish, much less go on to college. So, this throws them into the welfare system… hell of a trade.
AND where do you think a teen is going to go to get an abortion if she is too afraid to ask her parent for permission? She is going to have it done by some butcher, not in a competant facility such as Planned Parenthood.
Voting yes on prop 4 would take away the safety that minors need.
My mom and dad are voting no on 4 because when my sister was 17 she came to them when she found out she was pregnant. They were there to support her before and after her abortion. You people can call my parents bad and sinful or whatever hateful things you wish to say about a parent supporting their daughter the way they see fit for this very difficult time not only for the daughter, but for the family as well. The point was my sister felt comfortable enough to come to my parents and they were there for her. There are a lot of girls who do NOT have that option and it should not be forced upon them.
HB-Mom:
I hope we can at least agree that there is no “safe” abortion for the baby — isn’t it too bad that this society tolerates abortion being the only option that comes to mind for 16 year olds — for the record, however, I never said people choose to be gay (although some have choosen NOT to be gay).
F&E Fan:
I believe that the VAULT (long form) birth certificate would show if the birth was actually in Hawaii or simply a “registration” of an out-of-state birth. That’s all the “evidence” that I could expect to see. Why won’t he release that?
Damon
No, Candidate A is not necessarily going to be replaced by the VP if ruled ineligible to be President, especially not if electors are not even certified yet.
ktstar:
I am not “angry” but I did have to take a break — don’t worry, I will be here until the Good Lord calls me home — but if you still want to discuss whether I have ever capitalized middle names of other candidate prior to being questioned, just let me know.
Back on topic:
“Sex In the City” and “Friends” unfortunately influence teen pregnancy rates more than parents. That’s why we need SOME controls put back into this whole mess.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article5073047.ece
Megan: You are lucky to have such great parents.
The calm before the storm.
Name a state where one can register an out of state birth. I don’t believe it’s possible, even in Hawaii.
I do not possess a “vault” birth certificate that you refer. Just a computer-generated certified copy. I’ve used it to get a passport, replace a social security card, and get my driver’s license. It’s never been turned down as proof of my birth.
Since you offered no example of instances when pets had legal standing to enter into contracts, I hope you’ll stop making that silly people marrying animals argument.
I won’t stop asking questions where (if at all) people will draw the line. Ask PETA if dogs and cats should have the right to marry. I think it’s ridiculous, but 30 years ago, I thought that gay marriage was ridiculous.
As for a VAULT (long form) birth certificate, it would show if it was an out of state birth. I don’t expect Obama to have possession of it. He could easily authorize its release.
You didn’t answer why he won’t release it either?