From Register stats wizard Ron Campbell:
How many gay couples will actually tie the knot if Proposition 8 fails on Nov. 4?
Here’s a clue, extracted from that statistical Mother Lode, the U.S. Census Bureau. In 2007, there were about 104,000 gay couples sharing households in California, according to a Register analysis of microdata from the census’ American Community Survey.
“I think it’s a good number to use to make a prediction about how many couples will get married in California in the next few years,” said Lee Badgett, research director for the UCLA Law School’s Williams Institute and an economics and public policy professor at the University of Massachusetts.
Based on gay-marriage trends in Vermont and Massachusetts, Badgett added, “at least half of those couples will get married in the next few years.”
The Williams Institute, which conducts research in sexual orientation law, estimated earlier this month that about 11,000 gay couples got married between June 17, when it became legal, and Sept. 17. The group estimated that the increase in marriage licenses during that period was entirely due to gays getting married. That was the case in San Francisco, the only county that separately counts gay and straight marriages.
Sonja Eddings Brown, spokeswoman for Protect Marriage, the Yes-on-8 group, dismissed the Williams estimate of gay marriages. But she welcomed the estimate of the number of gay couples.
“We should have accurate numbers,” Brown said, “and gay couples should be accurately represented in the census.”
Here are gay couples both in raw numbers and as a share of all households, along with comparable statistics for unmarried straight couples for the top 10 counties and for the state.
| County | Gay couples | Percent of households | Straight unmarried couples | Percent of households |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Los Angeles | 25,900 | 0.77% | 156,131 | 4.63% |
| San Francisco | 10,599 | 2.96% | 14,929 | 4.17% |
| San Diego | 8,821 | 0.78% | 51,698 | 4.56% |
| Alameda | 7,001 | 1.24% | 23,417 | 4.15% |
| Riverside | 6,236 | 0.83% | 37,817 | 5.01% |
| Orange | 5,321 | 0.52% | 44,847 | 4.36% |
| Sacramento | 4,912 | 0.90% | 33,968 | 6.20% |
| San Bernardino | 4,160 | 0.61% | 35,334 | 5.19% |
| Santa Clara | 3,577 | 0.58% | 21,778 | 3.54% |
| Contra Costa | 3,376 | 0.86% | 16,145 | 4.11% |
| Statewide | 103,966 | 0.78% | 640,642 | 4.81% |
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Who Cares!!!
Good. I hope prop 8 fails. If you are so concerned that two people should or shouldn’t get married than there is somthing fundamentally wrong with you. There is a War killing thousands of our service men and women and MARRIAGE! is what is making headlines. We should be voting on stopping the illegal war this country is involved in
This data proves how unimportant the issue is to the majority. The only problem I have with this is that gays should not be able to bear children or adopt them. This is obviously (again) a selfish act by the gay individual.
This issue is not about war. This is about asking for acceptance in something that is basically fundamentally wrong in terms of building a family. You can’t expect the same rights when you chose a different lifestyle. I am not against gays here. If this is accepted it can later spread into something even worse that you cannot fathom at the moment.
Men with Women….Women with Men…NOT Women and Women or Men with Men…Yak ! !
So let me follow your logic, DJP: I’m a single gay man who adopted a child from the foster care system in California. A child who would have aged out of the system without a family, possibly languished as an adult, and perhaps spent a lifetime unmoored and unloved. I’m raising him to be kind to others, broad-minded, grateful for the people he calls family and friends, interested in education as a lifelong process, a decent flute player and an awesome wide receiver on his flag football team. And this is a selfish act? It’s always risky holding oneself up as a model for behavior, but if more of us were “selfish” in this way, we might help stanch a hemmoraging foster care system. And if the data in this article proves how unimportant this issue is to the majority, why are they trying to amend the constitution to strip us of our civil rights and human dignity?
1. Please explain to me why adopting a child who needs a home and a loving set of parents is a selfish act. Some of the most well adjusted, intelligent, emotionally stable (and straight) people I have met were raised by gay parents.
2. Please don’t tell me that I chose a “lifestyle”. This is not a lifestyle or a choice, you moron, any more than you liking the opposite sex is a choice. Do not dictate about how or why you think other people have “chosen” to love another person, and how that should affect their rights as American citizens to be treated equally because you clearly know nothing about human sexuality OR the constitution. Gay people may not be the majority, but I am a normal, healthy, moral individual who does not feel strange about the way I was born.
3. Me getting married really has no affect whatsoever on you as a straight person, married or otherwise. Why is it your business, or the business of the voters to decide that I cannot marry the person I love. And please, spare me the insulting, bigoted comparison to polygamy or beastiality. Being gay is not like wanting to have sex with an animal, and wanting to commit your life to the person you love is not like exploiting women for so called “spiritual” enlightenment. Read a little about things before you spout off like an idiot.
-A real live gay person who loves his boyfriend. And that is okay. And not perverted.
How can you refuse a gay couple a child? Do you know how many children out there are in need of adoption? Can you really condem a child to a life of being passed from foster home to foster home? Wouldn’t it be better to have a stable loving home with parents?
I understand that people feel being gay is choice, and not something you are predisposed to.
I understand that people have objections to it based on moral or religious grounds. This is America, God bless you and your opinions.
But seriously, why can’t you just mind your own business? There are so many other critical things out there that need addressing, focus some of your obviously boundless energies on those. How would you like it if government suddenly started telling you that you couldn’t marry someone of another race? There are lots of people out there that think that way, even today.
The truth is, this is a rallying point for a bunch of politicians and right wing operators who want to appeal to the hateful, irrational person that we all try not to be. They don’t care about gays getting married, or you; they’re just trying to gain power from using you.
Really, Prop 8 is not about legalizing or prohibiting gay marriage. It’s about removing the rights of other Americans to be happy, because we may not necessarily agree with their lifestyle.
“This is about asking for acceptance in something that is basically fundamentally wrong in terms of building a family. You can’t expect the same rights when you chose a different lifestyle. I am not against gays here.”
Where to begin? Gay people don’t choose to be gay anymore than straight people choose to be straight. All research shows that children fare far better in a two parent home regardless of the sexual orientation of the parents. Sounds like recognizing the right of gay people to marry is a GREAT way to start building a family.
“It can later spread into something even worse that you cannot fathom”
What the heck are you talking about? You are just being ridiculous! Vague innuendos… tsk, tsk…
If people who support Prop 8 really believed what they were claiming you’d think they’d be targeting all those unmarried heterosexuals and demanding they get married. How about a constitutional amendment forcing common law marriages? That makes more sense than Prop. 8.
I get a kick out of people who make decisions (and who pass stupid, unnecessary, and unconstitutional laws) based on fear - generally a bad idea. It is a culture of fear that bred the Spanish inquisition, the Salem witch trials, the Holocaust, McCarthyism, street gangs, bars on windows, the extinction of many earth species, the huge mess that is the war in Iraq, and now the financial crisis (among innumerable other blemishes on our history). It is also a culture of fear that breeds the people who will vote for Prop 8. When will we learn that far better things happen when society cultivates hope for the future rather than fear? NO ON PROP 8!!!!!!! It’s really a no-brainer.
We know that ancient bigotries are long lived.
We know that supremacist rhetoric, no matter who it’s directed at, always hits the same talking points: those other people are inferior, those other people are unworthy, those other people are dangerous. Sound familiar?
Well, let me personally witness for my gay brother and all the other gay people I’ve come to know through him…
People who happen to be gay are natural normal human variations who live fully, love fully and have families that are fully loved. The moral, true, just, courageous and noble side to come down on in the debate over the worth of good people who happen to be gay is the side for full equality under the law including marriage rights.
Marriage rights for gay people improves the social order. Gay people who form loving relationships and adopt the countless discarded children in our foster care system are undoubtedly REAL families deserving of the legal protections that come with marriage rights. The statements made earlier here by others are profoundly dishonest and cruel. Their blanket vilifications of gay people are complete and utter supremacist rubbish. The debate ought to be over.
In fact, I find the debate itself immoral and nasty. Being gay is not a sickness, not a sin. Stand up and defend your gay family, friends, neighbors, parishioners and colleagues against the barbaric ancient bigotries still being pushed by fearful ignorant people.
Come down on the side of righteousness and justice. Don’t be silent when you hear anti-gay bigotry expressed in public. Stand against it and it will fall like all other absurd tyrannies of hate. I love my gay brother. I proudly stand with him on the side of rationality, compassion and fairness.
I’m gladly and wholeheartedly VOTING NO ON PROP. 8!
California - Vote “NO” on Prop. 8!
Arizona - Vote “NO” on Prop. 102! AGAIN!
Florida - Vote “NO” on Amendment 2!
Connecticut - Vote “NO” on Question 1!
once upon a time there were also anti-miscegenation laws because people thought that races mixing was also “unnatural” and would result in children who were like mules.
with the sheer number of unwanted children in the foster care system, i think that as many people as possible should be allowed to adopt as long as they aren’t abusive. two parents, no matter what their gender, is obviously the optimal situation to raise a child.
question: should we also outlaw single mothers or dead-beat dads because it’s better to have a man and a woman raise children?
I wonder if anyone’s thought about the fallout that will occur if Prop 8 passes. No, not just the removal of rights from GLBT people - the removal of marriage from EVERYONE. That’s if Prop 8 passes. The State Supreme Court pretty clearly telegraphed what would have to be done if California tried to reserve “marriage” to a single group of people. It’d have to be taken away and all marriages converted to civil unions. The Court chose the more expedient route of saying “These rights apply to all comers, gay or straight, and it would be a real hassle to change everything to ‘civil union,’ so gays also have the right to marry. That’s the easiest, least expensive route to take.” However, they did say what the other option was: withholding that designation from both opposite-sex couples and same-sex couples in favor of some other, uniform designation. That’s what you are toying with, by trying to pass Prop 8. It would result in the Supreme Court saying “Okay, we have NO marriages in California. They’re all civil unions.” That would also have the effect of making it impossible for anyone in California who is civilly unioned to claim marriage exemptions on their federal taxes.
Don’t listen to liars. The Yes on 8 campaign is full of them. Protect religious freedom and marriage as well as civil rights - by voting NO on 8.
If I want to teach my child about religion i have to do so outside of public schools. My child only learns about evolution not god if he stays in public schools. Why should gay marriage, gay family lifestyles that I disagree with be forced on my child as normal or llegal? That should also be taught outside of school. You want to talk about civil rights, why do the hispanics, asians etc.. get breaks on education, scholarships etc.. if everyone wants to be equal then there shouldnt be a box you have to fill in every time you apply for a job or scholarship. describing your race. Give gay marriage a different name. They already have rights in relationships just like straight couples do. With all the change that is happening in this world, cant we leave some traditions alone to pass on to our kids. I am tired of explaining why things are so different from when i was a kid. I just want to give that to my children. Not all change is good!!
Chad - right on! And thank you. You said what you said eloquently.
The people voted no, the idiots overturned our votes (our votes mean nothing) if this fails the rainbows will try to adopt kids. They will go to school. My sons and their friends will make life hell for them in school, but hey as long as the rainbows get their way it’s all right. California keeps being the laughing stock of the nation. As sad as Hussein going in office.
The rainbows and Hussein, America has lost it’s way.
This a moral issue, not a civil rights issue. I don’t want my children going to a gay wedding in school or being taught this. Say it won’t happen it already has. Have tolerance for my view.
Yes if you vote yes on prop 8 they will call you hateful
They speak of tolerance yet not is given
Si en prop 8
I’m voting yes on prop 8. I believe it is a moral issue also.
I hope the majority of Californians who vote, will vote against Prop. 8. The right to marry is a fundamental Constitutional right that should not be denied to any adults who wish to avail themselves of the institution of marriage. The Chief Justice of our Supreme Court, the author of this opinion, is not a left-wing fanatic, but a Republican-appointed Justice who called it not based on his own agenda but upon the law as he saw it should be applied. You will note that the Connecticut Supreme Court recently reached a simillar conclusion based upon their own state constitution.
The gay couples that I have known have been in relationships as loving and committed as any heterosexual couples I have known. In several instances, their relationships have outlasted many heterosexual marriages. It is wrong to deny our gay citizens the same rights and privileges that heterosexual couples can enjoy. To do otherwise is to make gay people second class citizens. Vote against Proposition 8!
I will vote yes on 8. It is imortant to keep traditonal marriage. Not a time to experiment with something new.
It would really hurt and confuse children. People wake up this is not confusing
Vote no on prop 8. California is better than that.
I’ve been with my husband for what will be sixteen wonderful years this November.
My parents, both in their 70s, recently celebrated their 50th Anniversary. They love us both and invite us over for weekend visits twice a month. Their marriage is as strong as ever, and you wanna’ know why?
Well, it’s very simple, really. My mother and father already understand what marriage is. It doesn’t succeed or fail based upon how their neighbors or a couple of strangers down the street are living their lives. And it seems to me that many, if not all, of the people who are fighting to ban same-sex marriage have conveniently forgotten that. It is so disheartening to read the same old hate-riddled propaganda from the same hate-infested people who very clearly have no idea how idiotic they’re making themselves look. Joe Hetero’s marriage isn’t going to fail because I’m finally going to be able to legally marry. A marriage fails or succeeds based upon what the two people involved are willing to contribute. I, as a gay man, am not responsible for a straight couple’s happiness or despair. If their marriage fails, that’s on them…..not the gay community or anyone else.
Just thought I’d put that pathetic little argument to bed where it belongs.
Mass. had a huge influx of gay marriage when it became legal, and tapered off dramatically each year after. Marriage is taxed, so of course it would help Cal. for a short period of time. But soon people realize just because they CAN doesn’t mean they should due to the marriage tax and the leading cause of divorce is marriage, and with that comes alimony etc. So regardless of YES OR NO on 8, marriage is a committment that only 50% of the time is forever
This should not even be on the ballot, the fact that it is proves that there is a LOT wrong with California in general.
Its time to start discussing the real issues.
Can anyone explain to me how gay marriage endangers marriage? It’s not as if we heterosexuals have done such a great job of it.
No on 8.
Yes on people staying in loving, committed, monogamous relationships.
It doesnt take a man and a woman to have a family, to bear a child yes, but not to have a family. It takes 2 loving individuals willing to do whatever it takes! Half the damn country is single parents, abused children, neglected children, etc. So whats the big deal in allowing gays to adopt? Saying theyre selfish is idiotic, the only selfishness is preventing a child from having a family.
What’s really amazing about all of this can be found in the numbers. The statewide percent of gay couples is only .78%. Overall, the actual homosexual population does not exceed 3.5%. Did you realize this? Probably not. The homosexual activists are so loud and “in your face” that you probably thought homosexuals represent about 20% of the population. But think of your workplace. Out of 20 co-workers, how many of them are gay? Yes, that’s what I thought. Somewhere between zero and one. So this extremely tiny albeit loud audience wants everyone to accept their behavior as normal? I would love to see the percentage of the population that considers polygamy or pedophilia as a normal and good thing. If the polygamists and pedophiliacs are boisterous and demonstrate on the streets of San Francisco - should we accept them as normal and consider that “marriage” too? Be careful people, that’s next.
Vote Yes on “8.”
I have seen signs claiming that opposing #8 is the same as opposing religious freedom. And I’ve seen signs that claim favoring #8 is the same thing as favoring free speech.
Let’s get this straight. Proposition 8 has nothing to do with religious freedom and the only thing that connects it to free speech is that people were able to place it on the November ballot. How anyone feels about #8 does not do anything to free speech nor say anything about whether the individual supports religious freedom, whatsoever!! No matter, how many people are holding up signs implying it is so.
Proposition 8 is all about the religious right bulldozing its way into everyone’s bedrooms. It is all about dictating the rest of the country how to live. It is all about intimidation, bullying, scare tactics and intolerance.
Adam, I’m looking forward to the day. Marriage should be reserved for church and one’s faith. If that means no IRS marriage exemptions - then good. It has always been unfair to single people anyway.
Chad, I feel sorry for you. You will NEVER get what you want - which is to be considered normal when you choose to have sex with your own gender. Sorry pal, there will ALWAYS be people who will call you a pervert when your not out of their site.
Dabichizbak, Please visit your shrink for additional counseling. I don’t think you’re playing with a full deck.
all of you are ridiculous. there is so much more to life. you love who you love. thats it. no questions asked. at least half of you very opinionated people on here have probably fallen in love…it may have been without approval of friends or family but you still fell in love, correct? thanks for agreeing. people may have told you not to be together or even tried to make you choose between them and your love. it sucked didnt it? thanks for agreeing again. there are so many more important issues to face in this world rather than criticizing people for who they fall in love with. there’s a national debt, a war, a president to choose, people dying all over the world. i guess this is just the easiest problem for you all to bitch about. so go ahead. sit in your house with the one you love and whine about how your wife’s sister or your husband’s mother may not like you. try dealing with a decent amount of the entire population treating you like shit then go ahead and post a comment on here. inconsiderate assholes.
Had this been an earlier time, my parents would not have been able to be wed and bear children, because multi-racial relationships/marriage was considered obscene, against the principle’s of marriage before god, yadda yadda… basically the exact same rhetoric the current-day bigots have for wanting to control others to make up for their own personal inadequacies and confusion.
One of the downsides of an advanced democracy is that you have to apply civil rights equally. Unfortunately, for society to give its blessing to gay marriage, is to equivocate and make gay sex seem normal - when in fact it is not. Homosexuality is abnormal.
We live in a society where every issue seems to focus on the individual instead of the larger societal needs. What next - transgender marriage? Issues like gay marriage make me feel ashamed of my country.
Please, no matter where you are in the state, pleases donate $25.00 to the No on 8 campaign. If we can get 1 million people to donate $25.00 each the campaign will have $25 million dollars. The Yes on 8 campaign is now running ads with 4 year old children saying that we are teaching them to marry someone of the same gender. Unbelievable. I can’t believe what I am seeing on TV and hearing on the radio stations in the Orange County/Los Angeles area where I live.
Please donate so we can defeat this measure. These people will stop at nothing to promote lies, hate, and bigotry, along with denying basic rights against fellow gay Californians. Our State Constitution that guarantees equality under the law for all citizens means nothing to them.
So okay, dudeman and others, how are we to categorically define or even describe what you so strongly allege is the abnormality of being a queer citizen? One fav is simply that anything else besides exclusively straight is abnormal, but that fails to account for the rest of the abnormalities that even such exclusively straight folks exhibit - child abuse, spouse or other family violence, and the men who readily make babies but never plan to parent or support the babies. Another fav is simply the old familiar claim that homosexual or same sex phenomena were supposedly never seen in the rest of nature and animal species; but that was before we found consistent, widespread evidence among many animal species of both same sex behaviors and pairbonding in species which typically pairbond. You can use a statistical angle, and claim that anything not in the majority is by definition abnormal - yet that blankets all exceptional persons including scientific, athletic, musical, and other geniuses who simply will never be majorities statistically. The remaining fav is to claim abnormality based on some consistent causal link to other abnormalities, large or medium or small. But careful research methods have disconfirmed that one, too.
What’s left? Repeating fears, groundless fears - the current fav in the statewide Yes on Prop 8 campaign appears to be drumming up smarmy fears about harm to children stemming from gay marriage. Sheer prejudice that cannot stand steady, common sense rational scrutiny.
The sneak being attempted is also quite clear from noticing how similar state amendments have been followed up outside our state. Once the constitutional change is passed, further legal and social assaults on any citizen rights for queer folks is drummed up - and the campaign proponents readily attempt to interfere with housing, work, health care and parenting protections just so long as two men or two women are involved.
No, the screeching fears about harm to children, the dubious alarms that somehow straight people will be harmed if same sex couples make recognized lifelong commitments of care and stability, the sneak underlying the initiative - all are repeating lies, abnormality of minority status queer folks being one of the most easily investigated.
PS let’s clear up one confusion posted in this thread. We already have legal transgender marriage in this state. Have had for a few years now.
Any transgender person is legally defined as their corrected sex/gender, even amending the state issued birth certificate as corrected after their gender transition is completed. Thus a trans women is free to marry any man of her choice, just as trans man is free to marry any woman of his choice. If the amendment passes, of course, a trans man could not marry another man, nor a trans woman another woman. The other trans marriages would still stand as they currently do in this state. And what’s to fear from trans folks making lifelong commitments of care and stability anyways?
Prediction: 50,000 gay couples could marry if Prop. 8 fails… good! I’m straight, but I like living in a society where human beings are treated as equals.
To Chad:
The ignorance and arrogance in your comments astounds me. I can not fathom how someone who clearly comes across as believing in their own enlightenment about these issues can miss the glaringly contradictory statements in their own argument.
You stand high and mighty and claim that others shouldn’t be biased against you, and yet you clearly are significantly biased against others who aren’t like you - for the sole apparent reason that they are different. And you lump them all into the same category.
I am a polygamist. I am not ashamed of it. I am in love with 2 women. They are both in love with me, and each other. We live together in a happy, harmonious 3 way relationship. We have committed our lives to each other and could never imagine a life in which any of the 3 of us weren’t present. The way that we love is as natural to us as the way in which you love.
And yet we face the same discrimination that you feel you face every day. Except we get it from you, too. Statements like “wanting to commit your life to the person you love is not like exploiting women for so called spiritual enlightenment” shows that you harbor the same biased, uneducated and discriminatory hatred in your heart against others that you say others hold against you.
Now please, understand, I am not against gays in any way. What I am against is the man who stands up and says “I deserve to be treated the same as the person next to me”, when at the same time that man won’t treat others with the respect that he asks for. Whether that person is gay or straight, man or woman, white or black, old or young - that level of selfish hypocrasy disgusts every fibre of my being.
You want to stand up and say “Why does marriage have to be between only a man and a woman? Why can’t it be between a man and a man?” Well, I’d like to stand up next to you and ask “Why can’t it be between a man and two women?” You want to stand up and exclaim “Marriage should be between any two people who love each other and want to commit their lives to each other” I want to stand up and exclaim “Marriage should be between any number of people who love each other and want to commit their lives to each other”
Do I have your support?
Essentially every argument that you can make for your case for gays can be made for the case for polygamy too. And yet it is clear from your comments that you just lump me in with bad company because of some preconcieved notion that you have about my lifestyle. Are you really any different from those you claim discriminate against you?
Everyone draws lines in the sand to judge people. It is a simple fact of life. It isn’t right, but it’s there. Straight people often draw a line between themselves and gays. It’s not nice, but we can’t deny it exists. You claim you want to erase that line. You claim you want equality. But you don’t - you don’t want true equality. You just want to be on the other side of the line. You’ve made your argument clear. You’re not saying “Let’s all be equal” You’re saying “Don’t lump me in with those other people” You clearly still want that line. You’re still using it to try to define yourself at the expense of others. You clearly want discriminiation to exist - just not against you - because it helps to define your cause.
There’s a part of me that feels sorry for anyone who has to suffer from any discrimination in any way. But when someone will stand up with the level of ignorance, arrogance and hypocrasy with which you stand up and demand respect, well, it’s a lot harder for me to want to support you in any way.
- A real live polygamist who loves both his girlfriends. And that’s okay too.
Why is Jeffrey1234 allowed to comment with this contrived spam? Exact same comment all over the OC Register. Who does Jeff know at the Register that allows him to continue this drivel?
Chad you chose a lifestyle, you are not born with it. I also think anal sex with anyone is perverted.
Bottom line is I dont care what you do behind closed doors, but dont you try and force your perverted lifestyle on me. Yes on 8.
OCGator you seem to be mistaken. Grow up and realize that no one is forcing a lifestyle on YOU. How are other people’s lives an inconvenience to you when you are not directly involved? People need to keep their noses out of other people’s business. Live your own life and don’t try to tell others how to live theirs.
Therefore vote no on 8
Why don’t all of the gay people movie to San Francisco and stay there?
The gay lifestyle is a choice, and a sin. We all have some human desire to sin, but you resist it. Pretty simple logic : If you were born gay or straight then we wouldn’t have Bi-sexuals. Do we create a new law to allow people who have a Bi sexual preference the right to marry 3 people. What you do behind closed doors is between your business, keep it there. Yes on Prop 8.
Hey, OCGator,
For someone who doesn’t care about what homosexuals do “behind closed doors,” you sure do spend plenty of time thinking and writing about it in a graphic way.
Perhaps a little self-reflection is in order. Methinks he doth protest too much:-)
Love & Peace
If you are going to decide that certain people cannot have or adopt a child, then you need to be fair about it. i.e. this would mean that a crack addicted prostitute with a criminal record and a history of violence should also be prevented from having a child. Until you protect kids from parents like that, pretending that preventing gays from adopting is because you care about children is an obvious lie.
No children were forced to go to a gay wedding in San Francisco. In fact, it was the idea of one of the parents. And just like any school trip, there had to be written permission from every parent. Only 2 out of the 20 parents decided to not let their child go. Those two kids spent the 90 minutes the trip took in another classroom.
And by the way, did you know that Catholic Churches can refuse to marry anyone they want to refuse? Married one time before and no annullment? You can’t remarry in the Catholic Church.
The ignorance around this bill is just astounding to me. I had someone say that because their religion believes it’s wrong, their beliefs should be upheld by the law. But the issue here is that we have a separation of Church and State for a reason. No one’s religious beliefs should be included in the State’s constitution.
And if people really were worried about saving marriage, they would make divorce illegal.
Hey French62
Does the truth hurt??
Proposition 8 does not take away the rights of those with same-sex attraction. Those who say that it does are misrepresenting that which is guaranteed in the State Constitution. Domestic Partnerships are granted the same rights as Married Couples.
There is no need to change the definition of marriage that has existed since the beginning of recorded history. Yes on Prop 8. Restore the traditional definition of marriage.
i can not believe that with all the problems going on in the world that this would be at the top of the list for concern on the yes peoples agenda…Maybe you need to go after all the hetrosexual couples that don’t want to commit to each other instead of trying to prevent a loving couple who wants to commit from getting married. I truly believe Gay is not a choice it is the way a person is born. America you have bigger problems to worry about than letting a gay couple get married. I never realized how many stupid ignorant people there are in this country. Wake up America….NO on 8
Before you tell me that, as a gay man, I cannot adopt a child or build a family, I want to see the adopted children you’ve taken in to your own homes.
The plight of unwanted children in this country is extreme, and yet while the “morality” card is played to deny these children the opportunity to live in well-adjusted homes with loving parents, I don’t see those same “moral” Americans opening their homes to foster children or donating their life savings to child advocacy organizations.
If you can’t walk the walk, please spare me the talk.
Same-sex marriage did not used to be a priority for me until I saw the joy, faith, love and pride two friends experienced when they were able to legally marry. Then it hit home. Same-sex marriage takes away not ONE single right of straight couples. It elevates and promotes the institution. Interracial and even inter-faith marriage at one time was not “traditional.” My Christian faith (yes, I attend church every Sunday and my church is opposed to Prop
teaches me that this is a justice and fairness issue. It has nothing to do with religion. Marriage is a civil institution; you don’t go to churches to get a marriage license but to a state (county clerk) office! And as far as teaching it in schools, I honestly have no problem with it. Get a life people and get a grip. It’s about love, and that is one tradition that has endured and worth promoting.
Adoption is possible for single people and for Domestic Partnerships.
Chapman University has scheduled a debate on Prop. 8 and gay marriage that is free and open to the public. For more information, visit our college blog at this address:
http://collegelife.freedomblogging.com/2008/10/17/gay-marriage-to-be-debated-at-chapman-public-invited/1056/
My religious beliefs state that marriage is only between a man and a wife. This is more than a civil issue. It is a religious issue.
Why should somebody be able to have someone tell them who to love or want to spend there life with. sounds like when whites and blacks werent aloud to be a couple or be married, who had the right to tell them no. who cares what other people do with there life its not affecting you in anyway, people only have one life to live let them live it how they want and for everyone that said u dont want your children to think its okay fuck off honestly if ur child sees a man and a man or a women and a women together that doesnt mean ur child is automatically going to become gay. VOTE NO ON PROP 8.
DJP - If you think it so selfish for gay couples to adopt or have children, would it be the same for straight couples. Your reasoning is flawed.
Personally, I am straight, married and have kids, but I have numerous gay friends who have or want kids and they are just as capable and possibly more compassionate then a lot of straight people I know. In fact, they at least seem to want to have kids and raise them right. Unlike my straight friends and a large portion of people who have kids that are straight that stick their kids with nannies all day and night and are so hands-off that the kid repect the nanny more than their own parents.
In fact, there are no studies out there, and plenty of them have been done, that shows gay couples are any less capable than straight couples to have happy, secure and well adjusted kids.
Oscenities, and name calling, are really not appreciated in a discussion of this sensitive nature. Proposition 8 has nothing to do with telling someone they cannot choose who they love. It is only about defining marriage. Marriage has been defined as between a man and a woman since biblical times. There is no reason to change that definition. I totally support everyone’s freedom to choose whom they love. If same-sex partners want to adopt, that is fine too. It is their choice. Again, only the definition of marriage is the issue here.
DSR: I respect your religious beliefs. Your church does not have to recognize gay marriage. This IS NOT a religious issue. The problem you and many others have is the word “marriage”. This is about equal civil rights, not God. CALL it whatever you want, domestic partnership, marriage, whatever. Its about being equal in the eyes of the law. Current domestic partnetship laws are not equal to marriage laws. They just aren’t. Also, I suppose divorce should be illegal again. That would help preserve the “institution” of traditional marriage, don’t you think?
OCGator and Logic Buster: Love your handles, first of all. But that is beside the point. No one is trying to force anything on you. I have no interest in you participating in my gay marriage or hanging with my gay friends. Stay on your side of the fence and leave me alone. Also, your logics are interesting: “People aren’t born straight or gay, they choose to be so. The existence of bisexuals is proof of this.” What the hell are you talking about? When exactly did you choose to be straight? Tell me about that choice. Why did you choose to be straight? Don’t tell me what I am or how I got that way, and I won’t tell you what you are, other than bigots. Bigots who probobly like anal sex A LOT more than I do.
CoolHandDave: But I already have what I want, which is to be happy with myself. I don’t care if YOU consider me normal. And I don’t care if random people like you call me a pervert behind my back. They, and you, are idiots. Enjoy being an idiot!
Seth: I have to say, you have a point. I do not understand polygamy, but that does not mean I should judge it. If you and your girlfriends are happy and no one gets hurt, I say go for it, and enjoy. You have to admit, though, the legal ramifications of polygamous marriage are a lot more complicated than those of gay marriage.
If this is a civil issue, then so be it. I look at it as more than that. In the eyes of the law, California Civil Law, Domestic Partnerships have the same rights as Married Couples. It is right in the California Constitution. Those who say differently are not informed, or are trying to misinform others. If you want me to show you, I can, in the California Law Code.
Here is the California Law:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=fam&group=00001-01000&file=297-297.5
Chad, laughing my a– off about your responses to the ‘phobes who are way to pre-occupied with everyone else’s life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. Keep hitting em back. We’re going to win this one eventually, and the small-minded and ignorant just can’t accept that reality.
Good—-I hope 8 fails.
Sticks and stones, my friends.
only in California……..you go fagget’s…….GO AID’S………….
Take it easy Chad, you don’t need to be loving my handle, especially after telling the world you like perverted sex acts.
French62 you remind me of a leech, you will cling persistently (or suck) on/to others to gain acceptance.
Sorry folks, I call them as I see them. I will be voting YES on 8
Thank you for your support. In my religion, we are taught to hate the sin but love the sinner. I am not homophobic. I merely yearn for truth. Defining marriage is what Proposition 8 is all about. It is not an anti-gay proposition. It does not take away any rights from those with same-sex attraction. Domestic Partners will still have the same rights that they have always had.
Ensuring that Prop 8 does pass, is critical to the emotional health and well-being of society. It is a fact, that traditional marriage and family is the best unit of any culture. Children are entitled to both a mother and a father. That, is an equal right — and biology demands it!
Those who stand in the defense of preserving traditional marriage, are in no way taking away the “rights” of other U.S. citizens. This is a distortion to promote the cause of a few, who have chosen an alternate lifestyle.
The only definition of ‘Marriage” is between a man and a woman. Any U.S. citizen who desires to be married, can do so according to the established pattern. Marriage - has no alternative definition. Civil Unions are available to those of same-gender attraction. The same rules apply.
tDMg
Kathryn
Having a gay brother does not bother me. I grew up with him and know who he really is. A great brother , a very professonal and dedicated person to his family community and church.
The brother of his life partner has had some trouble with raising their own kids. One teen child is now living with my brother and her uncle because her parents felt that would be the best for her. She is now attending college and doing great. She has her friends over and are very respectful of the head of the house.
Being to have the same right of a “normal” couple is to be able to have everyone no matter of race religion or SEX to have equal rights to marriage.
An example of being a dedicated person to raise children and give them insight and education and guidence is what parents are expected to do. Sadly though there are too many “normal” marrages that do not form a good base for stability for their own children. And that is what needs to be looked at and not if you are gay or straight.
What matters is can a person sucessfully raise a family and instill life without prejudice, and a good educational base that will only increase their lives.
CNN: PALIN HITS OBAMA FOR TERRORIST CONNECTION
ENGLEWOOD, Colorado (CNN) — Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin on Saturday slammed Sen. Barack Obama’s political relationship with a former anti-war radical, accusing him of associating “with terrorists who targeted their own country.”
We see America as the greatest force for good in this world,” Palin said at a fund-raising event in Colorado, adding, “Our opponent though, is someone who sees America, it seems, as being so imperfect that he’s palling around with terrorists who would target their own country.”
Palin made similar comments later at a rally in Carson, California.
Obama’s Chicago, Illinois, home is in the same neighborhood as Bill Ayers, a founder of the radical Weather Underground, which was involved in several bombings in the early 1970s, including the Pentagon and the Capitol, and the two have met several times since Obama’s 1995 campaign for a state Senate seat.
Palin cited an article in Saturday’s New York Times about Obama’s relationship with Ayers, now 63. Riot and bomb conspiracy charges against Ayers were dropped in 1974, and he is now a professor of education at the University of Illinois in Chicago.
Obama and Ayers attended a meeting for a school reform project in 1995 and met again later that year when Ayers held a campaign event for Obama when then-Illinois state Sen. Alice Palmer, who planned to run for Congress, introduced the young community organizer as her chosen successor, campaign spokesman Ben LaBolt said.
Both men also served on a charitable board together, he said. Labolt also said the two have not spoken by phone or exchanged e-mail messages since Obama came to the U.S. Senate in 2005 and last met more than a year ago when they encountered each other on the street in their Hyde Park neighborhood.
Why not let let it go to “YES”, if all “marriage” is removed then everyone will have to have ‘Spouse Contracts’. That is all marriage is anyway, wether it is between a man and woman or same sex. It is more a ‘relegious’ thing than a legal thing anyway. I think that 2 people who want to go through “Hell” togather, (same sex or different), have the right to do it! Why should any of us be different. I do have a problem with it being taught in our schools though. That I do have a problem with, and if it does then it will get out of hand quickly. Give anyone, (straight or gay) and inch and they’ll take a mile. If not now then in the future. We have enough problems with our education system without adding this to the equation, which is why I will vote “Yes” on Prop. 8. Those of you who will write after this is posted and say that this will not happen are living in a dream world. BECAUSE IT WILL! The past has shown that things like this gets exploited and compounded upon. Gays get a ‘Spouse contract’! I don’t care, just keep it out of our schools.
DJP Says:
October 16th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
This data proves how unimportant the issue is to the majority. The only problem I have with this is that gays should not be able to bear children or adopt them. This is obviously (again) a selfish act by the gay individual.
Well, i am gay and raised a daughter for 18 years. My WIFE also has a daughter of whom she has raised for 24 years. Both our daughters are straight and excellent members of society.
I for one have raised my daughter well. She has never had a drug or alcohol problem and at 18, she is still a virgin (yes she has a boyfriend). So im wondering how you figure gays raising children would be harmful?
Oh, and by the way…her friends know im gay and married to my wife. They are all accepting of it.
What is selfish is a parent who forces their opinions or views on their children. I dont condone my child to hate ANYONE. Perhaps some of the parents who have children who drink, do drugs, commit crimes teach hate…their obviously teaching something WRONG. I’m so glad I have raised my daughter better and i’m living proof it had nuthing to do with my sexual orientation. A good parent is a good parent and a bad one is just that…a bad one.
I support same-sex marriage and I oppose California Prop 8 amendment. We don’t all have to agree on gay marriages, as proof in fact allowing gays/lesbians to get married is not hurting anybody. “If gay marriage is hurting you or someone you know have died from the law being changed, please let us all know…”
Public school are not teaching children about gay people or gay marriages. Gay/lesbian parents are not telling their children that they have to be gay. Gay parents are no different than Straight parents. Allowing gay/lesbians to get married is not changing or erasing the holy bible verses out of the book. By allowing gay/lesbians to marry, is none of our business or right to say who or who cannot get married. We are all US citizens or permanent residents of this country and nobody should be treated like second class citizen. I believe all citizens should be treated equally with the same rights as others. Remember Jesus died for all of us, not only just for straight people, he died for gays/lesbians too. Gay/lesbian military arm-force people are fighting in the war Iraq protecting this country too. We didn’t eliminate interracial marriages into our state constitutional law, so why should we for gay/lesbian people..” I’m sure the bible wants people of the same race to only get marry too, but allowing interracial marriages didn’t hurt anyone and God saw it was ok. Just like same-sex marriages, it will not hurt you either, as God saw it was ok in those states that allowed it to happen or else with God’s power he can prevent anything. The bible has a lot of discrimination and prejudice verses written in it, but that’s ok, it was long time ago, how the way people who to live life. We don’t have to open our bible books as that was old generation years ago back in the days, as long as we all believe in God, that is all that matters! The law needs to be updated anyways with the new generation year 2000+ of today’s lifestyle living by erasing prejudice, allowing equal rights, turning sad faces into happy faces for all citizens. This is was Jesus had died for and what Jesus would have done for all of us including gay/lesbians equal rights too. Let’s make America a better place and number #1 in this world today in justice for all. Amen!
Jesus said very clearly that marriage has NO meaning in the after-life when posed a question regarding a woman marrying another man after the first husband’s death. Jesus also very clearly stated that you should Love your neighbor as yourself. (golden rule) A REAL Christian would already KNOW they are going AGAINST God’s will by trying to pass this discriminative, hateful proposition. A real Christian would know they should vote NO on 8.
It’s really sickening that the Yes on 8 backers want to take away a basic civil right….y’know “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”? Why the HELL do you CARE what two ADULTS do in the privacy of their home? Why do you CARE that two ADULTS can celebrate their love and cement their commitment with legal protections? Keep your homophobic, bigoted views to yourself! I am sick to death of “Christians” and other monotheistic bigots deciding whether or not my husband I could marry…took it out of your hands and married in Canada last year.
If you don’t want gay marriage, fine! Agitate against it being done in your churches (you bloody well will anyway), but leave Civil Marriage (and the right of same sex couples to marry) ALONE.
If you are so damned worried about “traditional marriage”, worry about YOUR OWN HETEROSEXUALS…there is a divorce rate of over 50%. Don’t try to stop loving, committed lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgendered couples from legal marriage. When it comes to commitment, many of them could show heterosexuals a thing or two